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Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread

How do you rate Fugitive of the Judoon?

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    95
The Nth Doctor said:
I have to say, I'm very impressed how Chibnall and the BBC managed to keep both Captain Jack's triumphant return and a whole new unknown Doctor a complete secret. Although casting someone of far less pedigree than John Hurt certainly helps.
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BBC America accidentally tweeted something about the return of Jack yesterday, before hastily deleting it. Though the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if that was deliberate distraction so that nobody would talk about the two TARDIS or other Doctor.
 
The Nth Doctor said:
Melodramatic much? :lol:
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Nope.
It’s a show that meant something to me *shrug*. Had that discussion before.

Not only have they just made a very silly leap, ignoring or undermining swathes of work by those that came before, but they wasted what could have been our first BAME Doctor on a gimmick.
 
Well, Jo Martin makes a great Doctor. If she was a future incarnation that'd be great. As it is they've unwritten a whole bunch of the backstory for no creative advantage, just to get a shock moment without adding anything new to the show. (Unless bythe finale the rewrite this somehow, by making her a future Doctor or from a parallel universe or something)

The incarnation is awesome, but the concept of where she fits is essentially pointless. I mean, there's always a value in winding up the folks who hate female or POC casting in general, but other than that all we have from it is another entertaining Doctor who would be exactly that if she was from anywhere other than pre-Hartnell. So I want to see more of Jo Martin, but I also want her origin redone... (I'm well aware that ever since Rose aired, anybody who had any connection with any prior form of DW is categorised as either "sour grapes old douche" if they utter a single criticism, or "shill for the corporation" when they insist on praising everything to the hilt regardless. Most of us are just watchers of the show who like some bits and dislike others, same as everybody else who watches any show... )

Otherwise, a good fun episode, presumably these characters were bred for the Celestial Intervention Agency back in the day, a la Jason Bourne, and it was fun to have Jack back even if he never met the Doctor, and was basically just making a cameo to tell us the Cybermen were going to be fucking shit up in coming weeks. (Interesting that the Cyber-empire and Gallifrey were both described in much the same way - I wonder if that'll be a plot element.) So, as an episode, good; as a part of an overall mythology, irritatingly pointless.
 
matthunter said:
Two possibilities - Doctor has past lives pre-Hartnell and forgot. Or Doctor will re-boot Gallifrey as final act of current life, regenerating INTO the new "First Doctor" of the new cycle, who forgets past lives.

Or we're dealing with an alternate Gallifrey.

Was certain Ruth was gonna be River until the buried TARDIS reveal.
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"The Brain of Morbius" suggested incarnations prior to Hartnell as well. Robert Holmes would put in the limitation in the camptacular "The Deadly Assassin" and other episodes had the fourth Doctor he's changed his appearance 'two or three times' or something to that effect, long before JNT took over. :D
 
Relayer1 said:
Pete's World didn't have a Doctor. I'd always considered that it used to have (the Peter Cushing version of The First Doctor) but somewhere along the line one of his regenerations failed.
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Was that explicitly stated or just assumed by fans?

Captaindemotion said:
BBC America accidentally tweeted something about the return of Jack yesterday, before hastily deleting it. Though the conspiracy theorist in me wonders if that was deliberate distraction so that nobody would talk about the two TARDIS or other Doctor.
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Ah, I missed that. I'm not on Twitter much and most of my feed is about how the world is burning down (figuratively and literally).
 
Now, if by "nuked" the Master meant "went back and invented Gallifrey from scratch but it all went a bit squiffy" that would be an appropriate out for how we ended up with a different first Doctor.
 
Relayer1 said:
To be honest, the only fan I'm aware of that assumed that was me. I've posted it before.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't stated in the show.
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I've seen that speculation plenty of times, so you're not the only one. Likewise, there's been speculation that the guy on the "Unity is Strength" poster in Inferno was The Doctor gone evil (that idea may have originated in the Target adaptation, I don't know).

Captaindemotion said:
I thought RTD said so, but that could also be my assumption
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean much until it's actually said on the show. He also said he knew what happened to Romana, but it's not set in stone until it actually appears on the show.
 
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I’ve always been a fan of the pre-Hartnel Doctors theory. It was just more interesting that way. If Jo Martin is a previous Doctor, I hope they can do something that lives up to nearly forty years of my own imagination and expectations.

The evidence so far suggests that this is a pre-hartnell Doctor, but the Tardis is post Empty Unearthly Child. Lee was also the faithful companion, not an assistant, Martin’s Doctor is a little more militant, like Hartnell, so who knows.
 
Relayer1 said:
Sadly I'm not that original a thinker - it's a big fandom and I'm sure some others have had similar thoughts.

I honestly couldn't say if RTD ever discussed it.
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Not the Peter Cushing, but it was discussed in these very pages that RTD had stated the Timelords were native to our own universe and parallel versions didn’t exist.
 
The problem with her just being a pre-Hartnell a la Morbius is that 1) the rumour is that they're going to say all the first set of Doctors were 13 women, and go for gender parity in throwaway dialogue in spite of the Morbius Doctors being all beardy blokes; 2) the TARDIS isn't a Police Box until Hartnell; 3) if they're Morbius type pre-Hartnell Doctors why doesn't she remember having an earlier cycle, given that she's seen and remembered several of them well enough to project them on a screen in her fourth incarnation... And so on. It still doesn't work.

Now, if by "nuked" the Master meant "went back and invented Gallifrey from scratch but it all went a bit squiffy" that would be an appropriate out for how we ended up with a different First Doctor.
 
10 from me. That was the best episode in a long time.
Loved that TARDIS interior.
 
matthunter said:
Two possibilities - Doctor has past lives pre-Hartnell and forgot. Or Doctor will re-boot Gallifrey as final act of current life, regenerating INTO the new "First Doctor" of the new cycle, who forgets past lives.

Or we're dealing with an alternate Gallifrey.

Was certain Ruth was gonna be River until the buried TARDIS reveal.
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My initial instinct is that I hate the idea of Hartnell not being the first, undermining the way he finds out how to be the Doctor in the first few serials.
But... if that was him amnesiac, rediscovering his real self, it still works.
 
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The Nth Doctor said:
I've seen that speculation plenty of times, so you're not the only one. Likewise, there's been speculation that the guy on the "Unity is Strength" poster in Inferno was The Doctor gone evil (that idea may have originated in the Target adaptation, I don't know).


Yeah, but that doesn't mean much until it's actually said on the show. He also said he knew what happened to Romana, but it's not set in stone until it actually appears on the show.
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Not Target, the Virgin NA Revelation.
 
Lonemagpie said:
The problem with her just being a pre-Hartnell a la Morbius is that 1) the rumour is that they're going to say all the first set of Doctors were 13 women, and go for gender parity in throwaway dialogue in spite of the Morbius Doctors being all beardy blokes; 2) the TARDIS isn't a Police Box until Hartnell; 3) if they're Morbius type pre-Hartnell Doctors why doesn't she remember having an earlier cycle, given that she's seen and remembered several of them well enough to project them on a screen in her fourth incarnation... And so on. It still doesn't work.

Now, if by "nuked" the Master meant "went back and invented Gallifrey from scratch but it all went a bit squiffy" that would be an appropriate out for how we ended up with a different First Doctor.
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Maybe it’s the season 6B Doctor, they give a new cycle, kill two doctors, and wipe the memory in time for Pertwee to fall out the door and it still add up to thirteen for Capaldi. This of course makes no sense.
And of course, the Ruth Doctor cannot now remember any of what happened, because that’s how crossing your timeline works.
And of course, the Ruth Doctor is actually a five year old girl, because she has to have aged up to the time differential on meeting her later self. But that didn’t happen.
And all of this happens without Gallifrey ever knowing, no Time Lord can ever know, because then that information would be in the Matrix, and the Lord President would have known it...like the Doctor was about three times. (Which is why the Masters big secret better be amazeballs.)
Also, this is all on contemporary earth, so how many Tardis have been stuck there at various points? It’s a wonder the Doctor knows where they have parked.

Oh.
And Gallifreyan Mean Time, The Doctor has just revealed the future to past Gallifreyans, no mention of a mind wipe (Gat didn’t regenerate and is therefore back in the matrix, or wasn’t a Time Lord.) or any ramifications.

There’s gonna be a mass of contradictions, or a mass of walking back, and well...

They still wasted the first BAME Doctor on a flipping gimmick.
 
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