Yeah, this. Ninja'd byNightowl1701.I wouldn't be surprised if Chibnall was not aware that the show even existed before 2005, or that there were any Doctors before the 9th).
Spoilers Fugitive of the Judoon grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Good lord - a Doctor Who episode that felt like Doctor Who! Feel like I'd been thrown back to the RTD era.
Best of the Chinball era. Nutty as a fruitcake episode, that's for sure. By far the biggest surprise for me -- the show has finally caught my interest again. Given the revelations of the episode, I predict they'll either knock this out of the ballpark, or we're in for one hell of a train wreck. It'll be a sight to behold one way or the other. Stay tuned!
My feelings exactly. Just finished watching it with hubby; when it was over, I turned to him and said, "Now THAT'S how you do a Doctor Who episode! Where the hell was THAT all season?" He agreed. Tight pacing, good characters, great payoff. AND, Capt. Jack Harkness thrown in for good measure (yay, Capt. Jack! *squee*).
Here's hoping the ending doesn't suck and ruin this good streak (of...um...2).
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While I agree that Chibnell's DW has not been immune to the minimal stinkers one expects from DW his season and a half it does seem like we've been watching different shows. The seasons have seen more investigative DW than running from monsters DW. And, from someone who was there to watch how bad the 80s got, only Orphan 55 and Arachnid's in the UK even approach the depths Colin Baker's run the first 2 seasons of Sylvester McCoy plumbed.
And after slogging through the Capaldi Era (which could be as dismal as what we got in the 80s), I'm mostly pleased at how Whittaker's run has been, even if I prefer more when she reminds me of Davison than when she's trying to be a female David Tennant.
Silly? Silly! You do realize what show you're watching, right?
Yes I do realize what show this is.... But having our own ideas as viewers is what makes it so much fun.
I've had time to think this over and reset my brain.
I think the other Doctor is The Doctor but from an alternate timeline that may have been aborted from a previous Doctor's adventures. That's my take on this. That Doctor did exist but in a totally different timeline that ceased to exist for whatever reason. Somehow she managed to escape that and land on present Day Earth in the current timeline and used the chameleon arch to wipe her identity.
That would also explain the other TARDIS which was buried. As for Gat I think she works for the C.I.A. The Celestial Investigation Agency who work for the Timelords.
As for the Master telling the Doctor that what she knows is a lie well I've been stewing on that one. What if their whole society was built on the subjugation of the universe and that's how the Timelords originally got all their power and the Doctor and Master, and others ran from all that. It would explain a lot I think.
Anyway solid episode 8/10
BTW was Chibs involved with Broadchurch? I thought that was a good show wasn't it?
Ok, now that was a thing that happened.
What fun! I was completely caught flatfooted by Jack's return. Jack! Hell yeah! I figured out that Ruth was a Time Lord early, and even twigged that she was the Doctor before the reveal, but I was curious how that could be. They left that thread hanging, more or less, but it was still fun.
RuthDoc was excellent. Loved the actress, loved the outfit. A little bit harder edge than Jodie's version.
And Jodie. Finally! Her confusion, her desperation. Finally she felt like a complete character instead of just a grinning idiot. Watching her struggle with not wanting to share with Ryan, Yaz and Graham at the outset of the episode is the first time I think I really connected with Jodie's Doctor.
This was far and away my favorite episode of Chibnall's tenure. Excellent Who. It raises all kinds of questions, and hopefully the answers give us more of this quality. Also, I can't wait for Jack to meet 13. Hopefully he's back before the end of the year. I haven't been this excited about an episode in years.
What fun! I was completely caught flatfooted by Jack's return. Jack! Hell yeah! I figured out that Ruth was a Time Lord early, and even twigged that she was the Doctor before the reveal, but I was curious how that could be. They left that thread hanging, more or less, but it was still fun.
RuthDoc was excellent. Loved the actress, loved the outfit. A little bit harder edge than Jodie's version.
And Jodie. Finally! Her confusion, her desperation. Finally she felt like a complete character instead of just a grinning idiot. Watching her struggle with not wanting to share with Ryan, Yaz and Graham at the outset of the episode is the first time I think I really connected with Jodie's Doctor.
This was far and away my favorite episode of Chibnall's tenure. Excellent Who. It raises all kinds of questions, and hopefully the answers give us more of this quality. Also, I can't wait for Jack to meet 13. Hopefully he's back before the end of the year. I haven't been this excited about an episode in years.
The episode overall was mediocre, but seeing Jack was cool and the Judoon weren't terrible. For Chibnall, this is probably one of his best episodes. Also, the Timelords are not gone "forever" now. They were brought back once, and can easily be brought back again when Chibnall is long gone. 6/10
As for this "Doctor", there are a bunch of theories, but I gravitate to two (which aren't necessarily the most likely, just the ones I like the most):
This Doctor is from a parallel universe. They do exist, and it would easily explain everything except how she and the other Timelord showed up in the "Prime" universe without knowing it.
or
This Doctor is from between the 2nd and 3rd Doctor. The 2nd Doctor's regeneration is the only one that is off screen as of right now, and if we take the Series 6B theory into account, and its about as close to being canon as a theory like it can be, there is certainly room for an extra Doctor, and you could even say that the time Lords erase The Doctor's memory of this regeneration when The Doctor regenerates into the 3rd Doctor, possibly to keep what The Doctor was doing for them secret. The only problem with this is that the 2nd Doctor had a sonic screwdriver, but honestly it wasn't that similar to the modern versions so this could be handwaved away,
This being Chibnall's show, I'm sure the actual explanation will be nowhere near as interesting as either of these (especially Theory #2, since I wouldn't be surprised if Chibnall was not aware that the show even existed before 2005, or that there were any Doctors before the 9th
I like the idea of RuthDoc existing between 2 and 3. Her Tardis control room does have a very classic look to it, as does her outfit. And its certainly not the first time previous incarnations had been kept secret from the Doctor - See the War Doctor. I think a pre-Hartnell regeneration might be even more interesting to delve into - re: The Brain of Morbius connection.
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Not sure that I’m completely onboard but at least was interesting and entertaining. Think I need a rewatch to get a handle on it and don’t mind doing so which is an improvement.
Doctor Who hasn’t given me a jaw dropping moment in YEARS, and this episode managed to deliver two! God it felt good to watch thrilling Who again! I loved it.
Judoon review: wo wo wo yo sho go lo co fo sho
I had an idea as I was waking up this morning.
Instead of 13 walking to the top of the lighthouse, looking out and seeing the grave, then leaving the lighthouse and digging up Ruth's Tardis from beneath the grave... the lighthouse should have been Ruth's Tardis all along.
Ruth did call the lighthouse "home". It is where her Time Lord consciousness was stored. It has lots of room inside it, lots of stairs and layers. It has a flashing light on the top, used for keeping travellers safe.
13 should have gone to the top of the lighthouse and looked out over the landscape. Meanwhile down below, Ruth smashed the glass... and 13 should have seen the lighthouse vworp vworp around her, reformatting itself into the familiar Tardis set, and Ruth is standing there saying "I'm the Doctor".
Plus, it would have been yet another case of the Doctor walking into somebody's house in the middle of nowhere that she doesn't realise is really a Tardis in disguise, after the Master's outback hut, thus making it a motif of the season. (The third time, if you count 12 in Clara's diner.)
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Instead of 13 walking to the top of the lighthouse, looking out and seeing the grave, then leaving the lighthouse and digging up Ruth's Tardis from beneath the grave... the lighthouse should have been Ruth's Tardis all along.
Ruth did call the lighthouse "home". It is where her Time Lord consciousness was stored. It has lots of room inside it, lots of stairs and layers. It has a flashing light on the top, used for keeping travellers safe.
13 should have gone to the top of the lighthouse and looked out over the landscape. Meanwhile down below, Ruth smashed the glass... and 13 should have seen the lighthouse vworp vworp around her, reformatting itself into the familiar Tardis set, and Ruth is standing there saying "I'm the Doctor".
Plus, it would have been yet another case of the Doctor walking into somebody's house in the middle of nowhere that she doesn't realise is really a Tardis in disguise, after the Master's outback hut, thus making it a motif of the season. (The third time, if you count 12 in Clara's diner.)
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I could swallow the Doctor forgetting a whole cycle given the war Doctor, but making the Doctor only a woman and forgetting all the male regenerations sounds like internet BS.
We have already seen other timelords switch gender and have no problem remembering who they were.
I think this is possibly a BSG kind of cyclical universe theory where the Timelords have come and gone many times and somehow this is bleeding through for some reason.
I am just happy everyone is excited about Doctor Who again.
Big Finish sit up and pay attention...
The answer to Doctor Ruth, will obviously tie into whatever got the Master angry enough to destroy Gallifrey. So they've been doing something that involves multiple regeneration cycles, with the memories of them being wiped for some reason.
Or maybe the Master found out like I said that their civilization was a huge lie built over the enslavement of a whole universe to create their world, their race so everything they thought they knew was a huge load of codswollop.
A couple of points people on Twitter spotted:
Tardis-style windows and a hexagonal mirror in Ruth's apartment:
Plus her name - Ruth Clayton. "Ruth" is a Hebrew name meaning companion or friend. "Clayton" is an English name meaning 'of the earth'. So the Doctor literally renamed herself "friend of the Earth".
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Tardis-style windows and a hexagonal mirror in Ruth's apartment:
Plus her name - Ruth Clayton. "Ruth" is a Hebrew name meaning companion or friend. "Clayton" is an English name meaning 'of the earth'. So the Doctor literally renamed herself "friend of the Earth".
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In rare form for me, I have a very short answer:
You are mistaken.
Slightly longer: the answers to all of that involves watching the show for certainly the last 15 years, even if you don’t fancy the full fifty plus.
Nope. There were pictures of people in silly hats on a screen, but it’s not clear. Then information was given on screen, repeatedly, that they definitely weren’t. The Morbius Doctors theory has less weight than the Doctor being half human on his mother’s side.
This!
This This and all this! This was the episode I've been wanting for years! Fun, referential, good use of previous aliens (and playing up their natural ambiguities) and a great central WTF mystery (actually a couple of good mysteries introduced!)
Even Jodie shined with some good writing to play off of! And Jo Martin really did *feel* the part. She played/acted it well.
Of course more then a smidge was hoping she'd say Ramona (or even Susan,The Rani or Mad Monk) of course.
This This and all this! This was the episode I've been wanting for years! Fun, referential, good use of previous aliens (and playing up their natural ambiguities) and a great central WTF mystery (actually a couple of good mysteries introduced!)
Even Jodie shined with some good writing to play off of! And Jo Martin really did *feel* the part. She played/acted it well.
Of course more then a smidge was hoping she'd say Ramona (or even Susan,The Rani or Mad Monk) of course.