Flagships Enterprise and beyond...

[Ithekro]

Constellation has Commadore Decker in command. Who was mentioned at being one of Starfleet's highly decorated captains along with Pike, April, Archer, and Georgiou. Lexington has Commadore Wesley. Both lower flag officers, but still flag officers. Fleet Captain Pike is not quite a flag officer (maybe). Also brings up questions about Fleet Captain Garth.

 

[Mudd]

Garth is ruined.

 

[SilvioDante]

Garth never asked for nothing.

 

[Ronald Held]

Decker was being groomed for starbase command, not flagship duties?

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Flagship in Star Trek is a meaningless title designed to make the hero ships seem super-duper important. The original series communicated the same thing without the need for a title...

"There are only twelve like it in the fleet." - "Tomorrow is Yesterday"

"He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew." - "Bread and Circuses"

Thanks, as always, to Chrissie's Transcripts.

 

[Arpy]

Flagship in Star Trek is a meaningless title designed to make the hero ships seem super-duper important. The original series communicated the same thing without the need for a title...

"There are only twelve like it in the fleet." - "Tomorrow is Yesterday"

"He commands not just a spaceship, Proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew." - "Bread and Circuses"

Thanks, as always, to Chrissie's Transcripts.

I agree, but we have these lemons, might as well make some lemonade.

Not that different from similar issues with TOS, including in the examples you noted: he doesn’t command a spaceship but a starship! What’s the difference? One is super duper!

 

[Ricky Spanish]

Not that different from similar issues with TOS, including in the examples you noted: he doesn’t command a spaceship but a starship! What’s the difference? One is super duper!

I think the difference being that the TOS dialogue gives a greater texture to the universe than flagship.

 

[Arpy]

I think the difference being that the TOS dialogue gives a greater texture to the universe than flagship.

Oh I think they both do that, just neither was elaborated upon very much. Ergo this thread discussing what it might all mean. My biggest problem with the “Starship Class” isn’t that it was special — I think that’s pretty intriguing in the same way I think you do — but that there were only 12 of them. Suggests that Starfleet wasn’t in the exploration business but for a tiny smattering of ships.

 

[Ithekro]

The old idea was that there would be six Galaxy-class starships in service and six ready for assembly if needed. Before the Dominion War, Starfleet had already lost at least three Galaxy-class starships (Yamato, Odyssey and Enterprise) with possible others lost at Wolf 359 and the Battle of Sector 001 against the Borg. Yet during the war there are multiple Galaxy-class starships in the fleets running around with Captain Sisco early in the war. Interestingly, at the Second Battle of Chin'toka, there are no Galaxy-class present. A few years later, when USS Voyager returns, the Sol system has managed to grab a fair number of Galaxy-class starships to intercept a Borg sphere.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

My biggest problem with the “Starship Class” isn’t that it was special — I think that’s pretty intriguing in the same way I think you do — but that there were only 12 of them. Suggests that Starfleet wasn’t in the exploration business but for a tiny smattering of ships.

I think it was just one of those things where they originally imagined a much smaller Starfleet. When they went from UESPA to the Federation, they never reimagined the size of fleet that would be needed to cover that kind of area.

Almost like it was a small, specialized force within the greater military.

 

[UssGlenn]

Except for M'Benga's comment, usually the term is used as "Federation Flagship". That means it's a civilian designation, so the civilian definition, usually applied to retail stores and smartphones, would apply.

 

[Arpy]

Except for M'Benga's comment, usually the term is used as "Federation Flagship". That means it's a civilian designation, so the civilian definition, usually applied to retail stores and smartphones, would apply.

And yet there it is, that pesky M’Benga comment, calling it Starfleet’s flagship. For me, the fleet is broken up into subfleets that in peacetime are spread apart doing individual duty, and that in wartime come together to do serious damage. The ship that would be the command center for the First Fleet (or whichever is most important deployment on the interstellar map) is the flagship of the Federation Starfleet. Usually assigned to the most capable ship and crew, that’s often the Enterprise.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

And yet there it is, that pesky M’Benga comment, calling it Starfleet’s flagship.

Different show, different universe for me. He could call it a tree and it wouldn't change my interpretations of TOS or any other Trek.

 

[Ithekro]

If we are talking postwar against the Klingons, Starfleet and the Federation specifically kept the USS Enterprise away from the war. The Flagship that took no part in the conflict. They kept her and Pike away as that ship and captain are the ideal for the Federation's values and something that Starfleet wanted to keep clean from the dirty war. That is not a military value. If the Flagship of Starfleet was first and foremost, it either be on the offensive, or be in the reserve at Earth. She was not there. She was purposely kept away from the war.

 

[Ricky Spanish]

If we are talking postwar against the Klingons, Starfleet and the Federation specifically kept the USS Enterprise away from the war. The Flagship that took no part in the conflict. They kept her and Pike away as that ship and captain are the ideal for the Federation's values and something that Starfleet wanted to keep clean from the dirty war. That is not a military value. If the Flagship of Starfleet was first and foremost, it either be on the offensive, or be in the reserve at Earth. She was not there. She was purposely kept away from the war.

Which was an incredibly dumb explanation.

 

[Arpy]

If we are talking postwar against the Klingons, Starfleet and the Federation specifically kept the USS Enterprise away from the war. The Flagship that took no part in the conflict. They kept her and Pike away as that ship and captain are the ideal for the Federation's values and something that Starfleet wanted to keep clean from the dirty war. That is not a military value. If the Flagship of Starfleet was first and foremost, it either be on the offensive, or be in the reserve at Earth. She was not there. She was purposely kept away from the war.

Yeah, that didn't work for me. It seems to me like they were looking for a reason that the Enterprise didn't play a more prominent role in the war, but there wasn't really a need for that. The Enterprise wasn't included on DS9 during the War to End All Wars there either and nobody noticed. One assumed it was on the front lines elsewhere. Same could have been assumed with Pike & Co.

Instead what we got was some manufactured drama about how good and noble Pike and the Enterprise were vs the rest of the fleet, that went nowhere and frankly made them look worse, and line something about how they were Starfleet's last resort......meaning what exactly? A bioweapon, time travel, or seed-ship of some kind for a new Federation somewhere far far way, with all of its 200 people? Also, it wasn't a Galaxy Class, how far and how well do you think it could have gone and fared on its own?

Just a mess, that bit.

 

[BK613]

Well, when you're a post-scarcity, money-free society, you can hardly call your most powerful, resource-intensive vessels capital ships, can you?

 

[Arpy]

Well, when you're a post-scarcity, money-free society, you can hardly call your most powerful, resource-intensive vessels capital ships, can you?

They’re cap et al ships. Includes hat and battleship.

 

[BK613]

They’re cap et al ships. Includes hat and battleship.

There's a sombrero joke in there somewhere...