Flagships Enterprise and beyond...

[Arpy]

I posted this in the Trek Lit "suggest an anthology" thread but wonder if we might have a better subject-specific discussion about it here.

The question there was what subject might be a good one for an anthology book, and I suggested:

Lesser known missions of the Federation flagships:

1. Before the UFP: the Ringship Enterprise (was this just a testbed or a starship?)
2. Initial "flagships" (maybe 3-5?) during the 84 years from 2161 to April's Enterprise in 2245
3. Spoiler: Spoiler for the latest SNW episode "Orders of Magnitude"

   [*]During the Klingon War, Starfleet's flagship in battle was the USS Constitution
   [*]
4. During the years it was a trainee ship in TWoK.
5. Ship during the 22-year period between Narendra III (C) and Farpoint (D)
6. Destruction of the (E)
7. Reason for early decommissioning of the (F)
8. Flagship during the (G) era -- surely that refurbished older little ship is not current flagship
9. A tale of the (J)
10. The future: 32nd century Renaissance and the launch of the (M)

I think of the Enterprise as the flagship because of its excellence. It isn't just a flag placed on a regular ship that's no different than the 11 or 211 other identical ships of the same class out there. It's your best crew on your best ship class that best embodies the exploratory and humanitarian mission of Starfleet, and in time of war becomes the flagship of the first fleet, whatever that is. It's not just a marketing stunt: hey kids remember the NX-01? Well, come join Starfleet and you can work on one of our "flagships" of the same name.

At different times in Starfleet's history it's had different flagships, especially before TOS, when the five-year mission crystalized in the public mind how extraordinary the Enterprise and its crew were. Come to think of it, maybe there was a different flagship under April as well, until the new Constitution/Starship Class proved itself in service.

Also intriguing for me is what happened in the public mind to transfer flagship status around the time of the G. The E had blown up before its time, then the F was retired early, and the G was given to an existing USS Titan – which, as Riker noted to Picard when they were fighting the Changeling ship in the nebula, was not as capable as the Enterprise. My head canon is another ship became flagship when the F was retired.

I might have to think of some names for alternate flagships. Maybe in the early years the initial flagship status alternated between ships named after different members: The Kumari (to honor the early friendship), the T'Plana-Hath (to honor the special relationship), the Yorktown (that later a whole city in space was named after), the Agavè (after the mythical Tellarite god of adventure), and the Proxima (shoutout to the fanon). Maybe while the Enterprise was a trainee ship, the USS Federation carried the flag; and after the destruction of the C, the USS Ambassador carried the flag.

Anyone want to take a stab at what the flagship is in the G era? Or some alternate ship names?

 

[HotRod]

I like to think that, in the 84 years between the founding of the Federation and the launch of the 1701, the name "Enterprise" was retired both to honour the NX-01 and to hold off on using the name until a truly worthy and grandiose design was available: the Constitution class.

What was the acting Federation flagship during that period? I think pulling a name like Bonaventure from the franchise's history would be a nice little wink to The Animated Series. That, or I've always been fond of the names chosen for the shuttles and the other NX-class ships. Though, picking a name from one of the other founding members would be nice too.

I also remember from the "Picard Logs" promotional material that, in the late 2290s, the Shangri-La-class USS Titan, under Captain Saavik, was supposedly the flagship, at least until the Enterprise-B was launched. Non-canon, but interesting.

During the gap between the Enterprise-C and Enterprise-D, I always figured the name was put on ice for a while in memorial to the loss of the Enterprise-C, at least until those shiny new Galaxy-class ships were rolling off the line.

 

[Ithekro]

For 2402, I would propose the USS Voyager-B, which was brand new. If you don't want the USS Enterprise-G holding the flag.

After the loss of the USS Enterprise-C it would either go to another Ambassador-class or something of similar stature. Unless they wanted to highlight a particularly excellent captain and crew that represented Starfleet. USS Stargazer was an old and underpowered starship by the 2340s, but Captain Picard was somewhat of a model of what a Starfleet captain was supposed to be, even in those days. That could hold until it's loss ten years later. The USS Galaxy was launched not long after that, followed five or so years later by the USS Enterprise-D, under Picard.

As for during the time of TWOK, perhaps a refit USS Constitution was flagship again? Scotty did have plans that had a refit Constitution with the hull number NCC-1700, so it is possible the ship survived and was also refit like the USS Enterprise.

A question would be, would the USS Enterprise still be considered the Federation Flagship under Captain Kirk once Captain Pike steps down? Would it get that title back after the refit and Admiral Kirk takes command for a five-year mission before retiring and the ships becomes a training ship (or was it just a training ship on rotation until they could get a full crew on her again? Despite all that Captain Pike did, the ship is still best known as Kirk's ship. The Flagship position ternately being held for USS Excelsior, but USS Titan getting that honor instead under suggestion of Captain Sulu.

There is also the odd ball idea. USS New Jersey (Constitution-class). She was in the Starfleet Museum, but we don't know what she did. Was she super famous, or did she happen to be the only one of her class that wasn't refit?

 

[Mage]

Star Trek uses the term flagship wrong. Or at least, compared to modern times. The US Navy for example, does not have just one flagship. It is whatever ship is is holding the flag officer in charge of the current mission. The US Navy has several fleets, the way DS9 did at the end (7th Fleet, 9th Fleet and so one) and the ship carrying the officer in charge of that fleet is the flagship.

So, yes, let's say that Captain Picard on the E-E is leading a group of several vessels, the E-E is now the flagship. But if the E-E was part of a fleet with an admiral in charge on, let's say a Nebula class, THAT ship if the flagship.

Sure, in the Star Trek universe it's quite possibly they changed the terminology and made one single ship the Flagship as a ceremonial title, but it wouldn't make sense.

And honestly, only the E-D and the Enterprise in SNW were ever called Federation Flagship. Not Starfleet's flagship mind you, but the Federation. The Federation isn't Starfleet, they're two separate entities.

 

[Ithekro]

Star Trek uses the cruise line version of flagship. Ship that represents the brand the best.

 

[Arpy]

I think most of us are aware what a flagship actually is. Any airplane carrying the President here in the US becomes Air Force One; any helicopter, Marine One. They aren't the head aircraft of the Air Force or the Marines. I'm sure whatever ship Admiral Ross was on in those Dominion War battles (my head canon makes it a Sovereign; possibly a Galaxy) was the flagship of that fleet.

At the same time, I like to think of the Enterprise as the flagship of the First Fleet, defending the main Federation lines. It's the ship holding off the invasion of Earth and the other core worlds, while Ross & Co. (maybe on the USS Sovereign or Venture) lead the task force into Cardassia. Thereby the Enterprise is a flagship of a battle fleet and of the Federation.

It is interesting the distinction between Federation flagship and Starfleet. Maybe there's an out there where it is just a PR thing and the ship holds no special distinction in the fleet itself any more than any other ship of the same class.

 

[F. King Daniel]

At the Battle of the Binary Stars, the U.S.S. Europa was the flagship. Whether of that fleet or the Federation at large, not too sure.

 

[Tuskin38]

surely that refurbished older little ship is not current flagship

It's not an old ship.

 

[Arpy]

It's not an old ship.

It’s a rechristened existing ship, not a brand spanking new top of the line flagship of the fleet. And a refit of Riker’s earlier Titan, no?

 

[Tuskin38]

And a refit of Riker’s earlier Titan, no?

That isn't canon, it was just something suggested by people working on the show.

 

[Arpy]

At the Battle of the Binary Stars, the U.S.S. Europa was the flagship. Whether of that fleet or the Federation at large, not too sure.

There’s a question for ya…is the Europa the flagship of the fleet or of that fleet?

 

[Ithekro]

I have questions about the Constitution III-class. Is it an intentional design, or was it something built as a stopgap? We only know of one starship in that class. Is it the first ship of that class? Was it laid down as USS Constitution (thus a Constitution-class starship), but during construction the USS Titan was heavily damaged and was to be scrapped. One would assume the Federation Council stepped in and had Starfleet commission a new USS Titan-A and Starfleet decided to incorporate parts from the Luna-class starship into the new starship. Then after Frontier Day of 2401 I would assume that again the Federation Council stepped in to give both the Titan's crew and the Enterprise's crew honors and had the ship remained USS Enterprise-G. One would expect Starfleet would start building a new USS Titan (-B) and a new USS Enterprise (-H) as the USS Enterprise-F was retired early. So the Enterprise-G may be a temporary starship.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I've always looked at the term "Federation flagship" or "Starfleet's flagship" as a unique Starfleet honorific, and is more for PR purposes than anything else. That doesn't preclude other ships from serving as flagships in the traditional sense, IMO.

 

[Arpy]

I've always looked at the term "Federation flagship" or "Starfleet's flagship" as a unique Starfleet honorific, and is more for PR purposes than anything else. That doesn't preclude other ships from serving as flagships in the traditional sense, IMO.

PR doesn’t seem Starfleet though. It’s tacky. Contemporary.

I’d rather it really mean something. ‘Think about what that would mean.

 

[Ithekro]

The first ship we hear about with this title is the USS Enterprise-D under Captain Picard. At the time he is not in command of any formation in Starfleet. Nor are they supposedly at war with anyone (I believe the first time it comes up was before we even knew about the Cardassians). First time was probably in the second season of TNG. It seemed more like it was the premier starship in Starfleet. Seemed like a title granted by the Federation instead of by Starfleet command, as the Admirals generally didn't seem to give it or Picard much weight outside his experience. He has seemingly passed on a promotion and transfer to run the Academy early in the show and was one of their senior captains. (First time the title is used I think was in context to Riker being XO on the Federation Flagship, but not captain of his own. Picard attempting to kick his first officer into taking a command. He would do so again just before the Battle of Wolf 395 when Riker was offered yet another command. But after that battle, the offers stopped, until USS Titan. I would like to think they knew Riker could handle any starship they wanted to give him, but they really wanted him to keep an eye on Picard...just in case)

From what we know of the Federation flagships (mostly USS Enterprise, but also USS Titan under Captain Saavik) they aren't always being run by a senior captain. While Captain Picard and Captain Pike appear to be very experienced and decorated for in their commands, Captain James T. Kirk seems relatively new and young in his first Five Year Mission on the Enterprise. Was it still the Federation Flagship during TOS? Or had that title shifted once Pike stepped down? Did that Enterprise get the title again later after Kirk proved himself and his crew became legends? And then there is Captain Saavik. She would likely be a fresh captain around 2290 since she would have finished command school in 2285, as a Lieutenant on USS Enterprise before transferring to USS Grissom. Getting USS Titan in five year or so is pretty good. She must have been even better than we knew. USS Titan getting the title of Federation Flagship instead of Excelsior (and perhaps the USS Enterprise-A) may have had to do with the bridge crew of the USS Enterprise having stolen the ship and lost it while rescuing Saavik and Spock. Even if Captain Sulu did have the newest and largest ship in the fleet, and the charges were dropped against him, that would likely still show up somewhere on his record (even unofficially). So Saavik's ship getting the title may have been a compromise of some sort.

Captain Pike's Enterprise is classified at the Federation Flagship and Starfleet specifically wanted to keep them away from the short War with the Klingons. Just in case things went poorly, they wanted what represented the Federation values best to survive. That seems to track with Captain Picard's Enterprise, being was represents the values of the Federation the best. The shining example of what Starfleet should be, rather than necessarily Starfleet is. Does Kirk's Enterprise do this? Maybe. James T. Kirk is a complicated one. It should be noted that During said war, Pike had only been in command of the Enterprise for six or seven years, so it was hardly like he had been a captain for ages as of yet.

 

[C.E. Evans]

PR doesn’t seem Starfleet though. It’s tacky. Contemporary.

Not always. PR is also used to present an idea or image to the general public. In this case, the Enterprise could be used to symbolize the best of Starfleet to the Federation and beyond.

I’d rather it really mean something. ‘Think about what that would mean.

See above.

 

[Arpy]

Not always. PR is also used to present an idea or image to the general public. In this case, the Enterprise could be used to symbolize the best of Starfleet to the Federation and beyond.

See above.

Nah, too fake. Hey look at this one ship the politburo want you to focus on. Not that ship over there doing S31 shit, or that one behind it where the shitters don’t work, or the one to the left of that with sailors jumping overboard the moment they’re near a planet because they haven’t seen their families in years. But hey the Enterprise has the finest replicators where the crew eat well and explore strange new worlds. Uncle Archer Wants You!

I’m reminded of all the secrecy in Starfleet on SNW this season and not loving it. I see a future with a far less classified Starfleet. Hell, Probert had civilian seating in the bridge of his Enterprise. Logs should be largely public. Security and “body cam” footage too. The glorious missions and the mundane of all ships, including those of the flagship, all available to the general public. This is their Starfleet, not a relic of the 20th century Cold War. Or of the kleptocratic era of elite impunity of the 21st century.

 

[BillJ]

At the Battle of the Binary Stars, the U.S.S. Europa was the flagship. Whether of that fleet or the Federation at large, not too sure.

The biggest thing I remember from that episode? How terrible Admiral Anderson looked in those uniforms.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Nah, too fake.

Actually, it's pretty realistic. Hollywood had done a good job of painting PR in a negative light, but it's really just public messaging. The Enterprise being used as a public symbol for Starfleet not only is plausible but likely, especially post TOS.

 

[Dukhat]

That isn't canon, it was just something suggested by people working on the show.

I think it was a little more than ‘just something suggested.’ The problem, however, was that Matalas’s definition of ‘refit’ was some strange usage of the word we had previously been unaware of.