First-Timer's Impressions of Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Jimmy Bob, Feb 21, 2010.

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  1. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There was a poll recently about who was the most developed character on DS9 and you might be surprised to learn that Nog and Garak came out on top, both winning 25% of the vote each. I love Garak, but even I had to vote for Nog in that poll. For a new viewer it may sound weird, but I think that Nog's story is a great aspect of DS9, and this episode is a big step in moving him away from the role of the typical Ferengi thug.

    As for the A-story... meh. :shrug: I don't hate it, it's just a bit pointless to have Odo admit his love to Kira only for it not to be Kira. There are better uses for the Founders, and they'll show up a few more times before the season ends in episodes better than this one.

    Would you have preferred the original version of the episode? The original episode was written for season 2 by some freelancers and was about a prophesy of joy and happiness, and it was boring so it was shelved. Then Ron Moore joined the writing staff, read the script and decided that the episode should be re-jiggered to a PROPHESY OF DOOM! That's my Ron! :techman:

    This is the first of the so-called Emissary trilogy, and it's sort of an important episode. Firstly, there's a small impact on Sisko's character. Secondly, they can now communicate through the wormhole, so they can now place listening posts on the other side of the wormhole to make sure that a Dominion fleet doesn't suddenly appear and destroy the station.

    Personally, I don't love this episode, but I do enjoy it. I get what you're saying about it lacking oomph, it doesn't give the impression that these events will be important later, but they will, in a limited way.
     
  2. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Prophet Motive

    Prophets again? With Ferengi? :vulcan:

    + Quark always delivers.
    + Maihar'du reminds me of that servant guy in Addams Family.
    + Quark inside the prophetic realm. I always love to see that place. And his speech had some nice points.
    + Liked Bashir's sub-story.

    - Grand Nagus is just too damn cartoonish as a character. Also, his overexposure and absolute control over Ferengi society makes it seem like a very small community.
    - Filler episode. Just killing time until season finale.

    Verdict: Slightly amusing, but unimpressive little episode. It's definitely better than the previous two Nagus episodes. It just shares the problem of having to deal with Nagus and the ridiculously small ferengi society. Other than that, it's an adequate filler that in an intense marathon session could offer a relaxing "breathing" moment and genuine laughter.

    There's nothing wrong with being a filler, it's just when there are too many fillers following each other too closely when this becomes a problem. But one or two fillers a marathon sometimes more enjoyable make.

    There's nothing to judge here really. It is what it is.
     
  3. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it's a bit weird. This is the first time that the Prophets have appeared on screen since Emissary and it's a Ferengi comedy episode, it really displays how the writers had no firm plan of what to do with the Prophets at this point. I don't think it's a bad episode, but it does stand out as being the weirdest use of the Prophets, and the Prophets are pretty damned weird as it is.

    I think this is the first time that the Prophets refer to "The Sisko", so that's a bit of universe building right there. As is the darts board, you'll see that quite a bit in the future.
     
  4. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Prophet Motive is an episode I barely remember, even though I've seen it in the last year. I don't think I hated it, but... y'know, meh.
     
  5. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Visionary

    + O'Brien is Jesus. Seriously, how can one not be involved in anything that O'Brien does. He's such an everyman, you sympathize with him immediately. The same thing that made Trip such a beloved character is also working for O'Brien. That instant likeability and connection.

    + O'Brien trying to wake up O'Brien, then O'Brien wakes up and says to O'Brien: "Not you again!"

    + Using time travel gimmick in a brilliant and amusing way. Bashir saying to O'Brien: "Oh, you're here? Good. I just finished an autopsy on you. Yeah, you died." :lol: Speaking of which, Bashir has been almost everywhere in this season.

    + Showing other powers of Alpha Protocol reacting to the Dominion threat.

    - Perhaps the final explanation to what happened wasn't the most thrilling. The end was kinda weak.

    - Filler episode. Good, but still filler. Perhaps I'm just impatient.

    Verdict: :bolian:
     
  6. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's hard not to like O'Brien, and it doesn't hurt that he's handed some really solid standalone episodes in the early seasons... s1: Captive Pursuit, s2: Whispers, s3: Visionary, which might be my favorite of the bunch, partly due to the Romulan involvement, which is actually a nice bit of continuity worked into what is otherwise pretty much a TNG-style science-fiction puzzle sort of episode.

    As for Prophet Motive... *sigh*
     
  7. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think it's filler at all. In fact it's probably in my top 20 for the show.
     
  8. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't speak to this one, I was recently criticised for considering the episode average-ish so I'll have to watch it again to reappraise it. :shrug:

    Space Jesus O'Brien? No, that's not right...

    Yeah, it's a pity they wont do more with that this season.

    I think by filler he means that it doesn't move any of the plots forward, which is true. There isn't even any meaningful character development for O'Brien. Not that I consider that a major criticism for an episode, a lot of DS9 is filler, but it doesn't matter so long as it's good filler.


    Don't worry Billy Frankenstein, there's a major event coming up soon: the growing of Sisko's beard. I wont tell you what episode it's in so that you can be surprised. :)
     
  9. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not to mention that an important female character gets naked in an upcoming episode, which is quite an event in itself, and perhaps the turning point of the season :techman:

    HAHAHAHAHAHA Consider yourself spoiled :evil:
     
  10. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    If that's the case, then a huge amount of the series is filler! The way I see it, this is still a Star Trek show and Visionary is a good Star Trekky episode, sort of like what Braga might have written on TNG. Considering episodes like this have been part of DS9 from the start, I don't see the need to privilege the "worldbuilding" or arc episodes over this kind.

    Otherwise there's an episode in Season 5 that everyone loves that's going to have to go in the filler column...
     
  11. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I basically see it that way as well, especially since this episode is firmly entrenched in the season 3 "landscape" of the budding Dominion cold war.

    If this episode is filler, then 90% of a show like TNG is filler (which is only true in the sense that entertainment itself is a kind of filler). DS9 includes a bunch of different storytelling styles, including many ongoing plots and recurring characters, but also including more traditional Trek episodes such as this one. It's all good (except when it's bad ;)).
     
  12. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Umm... TNG is an anthology show anyway. It's really just Twilight Zone, but with the same characters each episode. There is no overall direction or anywhere to go. And TNG is a great anthology series.

    Now from where I am at the moment with DS9, it feels like it's going somewhere, but it takes too much time. Or should I say felt? Apparantley you're telling me that I'm just merely misunderstanding something about the nature of the show.

    In which case I'm done with this crap! :klingon:

    Kidding. :alienblush:

    But at the moment, there is this sort of vibe in the air that something should happen. Something that would cross the line. Something bad. Something to do with Founders and Odo maybe. Perhaps they'll kidnap Kira and force Odo to go all homicidal on their asses? I don't know.

    But I want to see that something happen already. In the meantime, I am quite enjoying episodes like Visionary, but it doesn't satisfy the itch for something that I think was promised to me.

    Does this explain where I'm coming from?
     
  13. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm not sure that Audrid Dax getting naked in Facets counts as female nudity as she was in Quark's body at the time. :scream:

    DS9 is going somewhere. The problem is that DS9 was supposed to be a TNG-style show, that's what Paramount wanted when they asked Berman and Piller to develop another Star Trek show. But the nature of this show cried out for serialisation and the writers were trying to push the show in that direction, while Paramount were constantly trying to push it to be more like TNG. Each season the writers won more and more concessions and the stories became more spread out, but every season contains a significant amount of "filler" episodes to please Paramount.

    Big things are about to happen. Michael Piller only moderately pushed for story arcs while Ira Behr worked much more in their favour, and Ira Behr is about to take over as showrunner this season. His first episode will be big, and it will be explosive, and it will have consequences that will last for a long time.

    I may or may not be talking about the arrival of Sisko's beard. :shifty:
     
  14. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would say that DS9 is a show that evolves over time (which is part of what I personally enjoy about it). One of the ways we can trace that evolution is the gradual development of more ongoing storylines, but that is something that grows out of the anthology-style Trek format without necessarily replacing it fully.

    I don't think that developing story arcs turns everything else into filler, is what I'm saying ;)

    Oh, I understand where you're coming from. Unfortunately nothing happens for a long, loooooong time :(
     
  15. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Jimmy Bob - DS9's definitely a show that builds towards things and develops over time, but its roots are still in TNG so there will always be some TNG-esque aspects to the show and episodes that resemble the sort of stuff they did on TNG alongside the more typically DS9 episodes. Some of these could be considered filler, but there are several that I'd consider among the show's best.
     
  16. LapsedTrekkie

    LapsedTrekkie Ensign Red Shirt

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    It's funny, but I have a friend I'm currently taking through DS9 (we're on Season 3 now) who has seen almost no episodes before, and another friend who's seen a smattering of them, all out of order.

    He's enjoying them quite a bit. We skip the truly abysmal episodes, by general consensus of the two people watching who've seen the entire series already. It's fun to see someone watching and enjoying it for the first time!
     
  17. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Do not try to hide the truth, Jimmy Bob must be prepared for the horror that lies ahead, or I fear it will tear his mind apart and corrupt his soul, leaving behind only a fractured shell of the poster we once knew :cardie:
     
  18. Jimmy Bob

    Jimmy Bob Commander Red Shirt

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    Distant Voices

    I is loving this episode so many! :adore:

    It's a kind of love that really hinders the normal working process of your brain.

    I dig this sort of surreal absurd. The Fight, Move Along Home, The Thaw, Mortal Coil - I just love that bizarre And what is more bizarre than a trip into Bashir's mind?

    Garak:"I gotta hand it to you Doctor, you certainly have an interesting mind."

    Quoted for Truth.

    I was already in heaven when Bashir figured out that O'Brien and company are just parts of his personality, can you imagine in what divine state of pleasure I was when it was Doctor went all that trouble to just reach his birthday as an old man.

    A pleasure that cannot be expressed, but only felt.

    B.E.A.U.T.I.F.U.L

    One of my most favorites ever.

    I guess there is a chance that only weird people like me like this episode. I guess I'll see now from your responses.

    I'll just make an observation. Bashir certainly has been in everywhere this season. He and Sisko are like the new writer favorites.
     
  19. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Season 3 is definitely the season of The Sisko, the point at which he turns into one of my favorite Trek characters. As with Samson, the man's strength seems to be linked to his hairstyle ;)

    The writers also make a valiant effort with Bashir and Dax this season, with whom they are quite successful and not-so successful respectively.

    There's also some very good Kira, O'Brien and Odo material this season, but that is more par for the course in the early seasons of DS9. Basically the writers focus their attention on the more neglected characters in season 3, and for the most part succeed in bringing them up to speed with everyone else.
     
  20. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How about... Bashir taking a trip to another guy's mind? Or even better, Bashir and O'Brien taking a trip to another guy's mind? :cardie: This may or may not happen before the end of the show... I'm not saying anything... :shifty:
     
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