Final Crisis #7 of 7 (spoilers)

[Allyn Gibson]

The absolute only character I care about is the Superman from Kingdom Come, currently residing in JSA. If they kill him off, as is rumored, I will just stop reading DC...

They didn't kill him off in JSA, and based on the way "Thy Kingdom Come" ended, his story is done.

Spoiler: Basically,

Once the JSA defeated Gog and tore his head off, he and Starman interred Gog in the Source Wall, and Starman sent Superman back to the ending of Kingdom Come. He arrived when the bomb detonated -- the implication being that his transition to the "main" DCU is what saved him (since Power Woman got fragged by the bomb) -- and then went on the rampage as we saw in Kingdom Come. The important part is not the retelling of Kingdom Come's ending, but rather what becomes of Kal-El after even the epilogue to Kingdom Come -- he learns how to be "human" again.

Spoiler: Plus,

He can't die, not without retconning the end of Thy Kingdom Come, as Kal-El is shown as being alive to see the Legion of Super-Heroes. At the time, I assumed the Superboy-character in the Legion shown in Kingdom Come was Connor Kent, to use his later name, but chances are, based on Thy Kingdom Come, that it's a descendant of Kal-El and Wonder Woman, in shades of DC One Million and its descendants of Superman.

 

[TheArsenal]

I read every panel of every tie-in that was out. And I like Morrison's work a great deal - and as I've said before, even the more abstract work like The Invisibles. Further, I feel Final Crisis was an inventive, novel and very ambitious way to structure a superhero story of this scale. However, none of this is to say that it is any good.

I saw in the posted Newsarama interview that he decided to move away from the traditional comic story telling format that mimics movies and TV in structure, and instead "[use] a few tricks from opera ... dense, allusive, hermetic ... that read more like poetry than prose ... loaded with multiple, prismatic meanings and possibilities ... composed like music ... an unashamedly ‘right brain’ alternative." Admirable, and again, ambitious aims. I appreciate his attempt to give us something original.

The risk of course with anything this unconventional and ambitious, is it rarely average. It is either genius, or when it fails, it fails in spectacular fashion. I admire him for trying, but ultimately for me it fails.

 

[Mr Light]

I just re-read Secret Invasion in one sitting, in comparison to FC. In FC's defense, it's definitely got layers and meaning. SI, near as I can tell, is about nothing thematically. It's just an alien invasion and Iron Man's comeuppance. The same could be said for World War Hulk, but Civil War was definitely about something. Not that this is a bad thing per se as I immensely enjoyed SI! And man Yu's colorful art is so gorgeous. I've never been a huge fan of JG Jones' art.

 

[TheBrew]

Well, I finished reading the Sinestro Corps War and that, IMO, was a much better event and it actually played on the events of Infinite Crisis. The exposition was effective in giving the backstory without actually seeming like exposition.

 

[Mr Light]

SCW was amazing; it's actually what got back into comics after a 7+ year absence. And it was more of a Crisis/sequel than FC was come to think of it! It actually involved the Anti-Monitor as the primary villain, it saw the return of Superboy Prime, and the plot revolved around the Multiverse without directly involving it.

 

[TheArsenal]

I found Sinestro Corps War to be a great read as well. To tell the truth, I'm finding most of the Green Lantern stuff to be of good quality. I just finished up Geoff John's Secret Origin (Green Lantern) which updated and retconned Hal Jordan's origin a bit. For some time I've had the same complaint many do: Jordan's a bland character; but not at all here.

 

[Mr Light]

I have yet to read Secret Origin, guess I'll get the trade one of these days. At first I didn't care because it was a "rerun" but I do want to see the introduction of the Red Lanterns. I've actually stopped getting the issues since I got laid off, I'm just to get the trades from now on since I can sell those back off and only loose a few dollars.

 

[Technobuilder]

Infinite Crisis was a bit too deep, but I was at least able to piece together the story.

You know the novelization of Infinate Crisis by Greg Cox does a better job of filling in the backstory than the comic version if your interested.

Thanks. I had the advantage of being able to read the entire comic book saga, and go back and fine-tune things, before the novel saw print. Prose also gives you a lot more room for exposition and characterization. I sympathize with any comic book writer who has to cram his entire story into exactly twenty-two pages an issue . . . .

On the other hand, the comic book versions have better visuals!

Dare I mention (ahem) that I'm working on a FINAL CRISIS novelization now?

Good. Maybe now I'll actually be able to understand what the heck happened.

 

[Nick Ryder]

I picked up a couple of the latest trades at the local Barnes and Noble, and honestly I was so unimpressed I barely could skim through them. DC is just crap now honestly. I would rather read some 5 year old back issues or some old issues of BOB HOPE! Than some of these bait and switch "Let's fuck everything up for the sake of fucking everything up! Yay!"

DC... you can suck it. Marvel's slowly getting on that list of late too.

You hear that Didio... Queseda. That's the sound of my childhood being raped. Hope you're happy.

 

[Capt_Piett]

If you want a good book, go pick up Secret Six by Gail Simone. Thankfully, it looks to be free from the tripe that was Infinite Crisis for the foreseeable future.....My DC reading has gotten pared down a bit since Catwoman got axed and I stopped getting Supergirl. Though it will be a bit busier in March when Battle for the Cowl and the one shots come out....

 

[Mr Nighttime]

Maybe DC should absolutely and finally just reboot the whole freaking universe. No more continuity probs, no more worrying about all the crisis and infinite crisis and final infinate crisis, no more trying to figure out how a character coudl be alive in WW2 adn be the same age today.

Start over. Retell everything and toss all the previous comics out the window.

Got a origin story on Batman but it sort of deviates from established facts? Screw it, that other crap didn't happen. I don't know..sort of like how the new Trek film will be doing. And put a moratorium on any earth shattering crossovers for at least 5 years. Long enough for the characters to build up and establish a basic foundation.

Think of it, erase it all and right now..Hal Jordan is just now getting a power ring. Today is Batman's first night on patrol. Clark Kent has just gotten a job at the Daily Planet. Ina year or so, Princess Diana will be sent to Man's world. Green Arrow will string his bow for the first time.

And whoever they get to write the stories can have carte blanc to tell it how they want to. ANd if someone says, "But he would never act that way or do that!" the writers can say, "Yeah...that DC is gone. Welcoem to the evil mirror universe your mother warned you about. That other stuff never happened".

Just my thought.


That and I would like to see DC zombies trade.

 

[Gojirob]

It was sort of implied (or was meant to be implied) that the MZ zombie outbreak was caused by a trans-dimension traveling infected Superman, and even though its mostly retconned to an AU Sentry, its still left just a bit ambiguous, IIRC.

 

[Nick Ryder]

See DC creates Zombies! I keep thinking that DC needs to do their own "Ultimate" line and just redo the entire universe. Have it run in continuity to the 'mainline' DCU until such time as they feel that the new line can replace the old mainline. Honestly Ultimate Marvel was a good idea initially, although I think they went a little too far in the way they redid some of the characters and stories. The original basis for their characters is/was solid just restart and refresh.

Instead of simply 'reverting' characters to earlier forms of themselves like all of a sudden 'pre-crisis' is 'in'. Just distill what the characters are into their basest, purest form and go from there. Byrne's reboot was PERFECT. It updated Superman, it refreshed his rogues gallery, it de-aged the cast so they could 'grow up' And really I think every 25 years or so, a 'reboot' is needed.

Crisis was 1986 - 1961 was sort of the start of the 'Silver Age'/Pre Crisis.
So 2011 (only 3 years from now) would be 25 years from the original Crisis on Infinite Earths/Man of Steel. So maybe just 'wrap up' the current DCU ala the Pre Crisis and then start it up all over again in 2011. That way the previous 25 years won't really matter. Now it feels like you need to practically look at comics from 35 years ago to get the stories they're telling now, since they're cutting in various silver age elements.

And sure it'll feel upsetting and sad. I grew up with the Post-Crisis Superman, didn't really get into Superman/DC until around the time of the Death of Superman storyline, but I think they've told just about every story they could with the current universe that needed to be told. And just think, with a fresh, clean slate maybe it will stop the editors and writers from having to tell so many 'universe shattering' storylines.

Marvel needs the same thing really, both of them do. Their universes are about the same age, and have similar convoluted backstories.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I still want DC to do an Ultimate line as well, they should take a look at Wizard's article from 2003 or 04 on their version. Except for the Superman one which was a continuation of Smallville. The other's were really cool, especially with the Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and Batman takes.

 

[Mr Light]

Isn't the All-Star Line basically their version of Ultimates? They just need to do more of it. I don't think the DCU needs a reboot just yet, I think the past couple years have set up some really interesting stories, even if they haven't been paid off as well as they could have been. Green Lantern has been bitchin', and I'm looking forward to getting the Superman stuff in trades.

 

[TheArsenal]

If you want a good book, go pick up Secret Six by Gail Simone.

It is a good book. And I would recommend reading the quality stand-alone trade before diving into the series. I also picked up Wonder Woman because Simone pens it. The jury is still out on this one; I'm not quite sure what to make of this secret identity and spy business. In my mind, it's all comes off a bit clumsy. I realize Simone was dealt those cards by the previous writers, but I'm hoping she can do something better with them than I've seen so far.

 

[TheBrew]

Isn't the All-Star Line basically their version of Ultimates? They just need to do more of it. I don't think the DCU needs a reboot just yet, I think the past couple years have set up some really interesting stories, even if they haven't been paid off as well as they could have been. Green Lantern has been bitchin', and I'm looking forward to getting the Superman stuff in trades.

The closest is the Batman one, AS Superman was not a reboot in anyway. The AS line is more of a different perspective of the characters, not really a new universe. Nobody else could write those books except Miller or Morrison.

 

[Nick Ryder]

Well I suppose one way to do it is do a sort of gradual reboot. The Green Lantern stuff has been good of late, so it would be a shame to lose it, but then again we didn't lose some of the classic denny o'neil GL/GA stuff really, so maybe it can sorta reboot with a mini series taking place a few years ago. That could be the way it would work best. Give each main character/series a year to reboot. Re-establish the origin, the early days, set up the rogues gallery, mean while wrap up the 'old' universe. Tell the stories that need to be told to end it in a clean-ish way. Then do like an "End of the Worlds!" story. At the end the 'Powers that Be' say 'It is time to begin again.' Basically its like Zero Hour but we're there at the beginning.

Then when the 'normal' issues start up, the individual creative teams can decide if they want to start right after the mini series or skip forward. Basically give each character to redefine themselves. I wouldn't even mind seeing things go a direction similar to Smallville, where the characters are pretty much open to being whatever. Lex can be the CEO/Mogul/Tech-wiz, Superman goes back to being single for a while. Heck re-intro Chloe instead of Lois. Take a risk.

DC hasn't really taken a risk in a while. Hal going bad and Kyle was the last 'big' risk they took and whiny fanboys complained for what? 12 years to get Hal back?

 

[Gojirob]

Ahem. Had Hal merely died, there would have been 'whining' as you like to put it, but a heroic loss ala Barry would have eventually been seen in a good light. The risk was taken almost without preamble, and Hal's going full-on crazy bad never sat well. I never hated Kyle, only what they did to Hal. IIRC, it, like a number of other bad storylines, started with some editorial veto of a larger storyline. Barry 'died well' and didn't need to be brought back. More, he fell and died as Barry. Hal fell and died as someone else.

 

[Takeru]

Well I suppose one way to do it is do a sort of gradual reboot. The Green Lantern stuff has been good of late, so it would be a shame to lose it, but then again we didn't lose some of the classic denny o'neil GL/GA stuff really, so maybe it can sorta reboot with a mini series taking place a few years ago. That could be the way it would work best. Give each main character/series a year to reboot. Re-establish the origin, the early days, set up the rogues gallery, mean while wrap up the 'old' universe. Tell the stories that need to be told to end it in a clean-ish way. Then do like an "End of the Worlds!" story. At the end the 'Powers that Be' say 'It is time to begin again.' Basically its like Zero Hour but we're there at the beginning.

Then when the 'normal' issues start up, the individual creative teams can decide if they want to start right after the mini series or skip forward.

Honestly, I think that's exactly the fanboyish way DC shouldn't reboot. Miniseries to establish new origins, that are published concurrently with the old versions of the characters, an "End of the Worlds" story and then a rebooted book that is based on the miniseries from a few months before ... ugh.

They should do a hard reboot, no wrap up of storylines, no "End of the Universe" story, just cancel everything, don't publish a comic book for two or three months and then restart the whole thing. They don't have to do extensive origins, who cares? You can tell Superman's origin in three panels for heaven's sake and if additional information becomes necessary for a later story, tell it then!