Final Crisis #7 of 7 (spoilers)

[Guy Gardener]

Final Crisis currently scores a nine point 4 on the weird-shit-ometer Greg, after you've trimmed the insanity and stomped on the pretentious newage druggy wizardy muck and side bared and intentional obfuscation... What are you expecting your novels score on the weird-shit-ometer to be?

I just realized that i have a few months of flash stacked up in my too read pile. I've had trouble reading Flash since Bart took over and was destroyed by low sales. It just seems so stunty as if they can't deal with how unwell the book sells... Barry. Gods they brought back Barry.

Seriously though, how much/many of the cross over comics are you allowed to draw from for your novel because assume there must be a limit to some degree sideways?

 

[YLu]

This seems to be a very polarizing comic, with most people either thinking it's a mess or thinking it's fantastic and a stunning story. Personally, I found it be just a decent series -- alright, with some great moments here and there, and with some definite flaws, but decent in the end.

One major fault is that the series isn't self-contained. You really do have to read the two issues of Superman Beyond to understand it. That said, as someone who only read the main series, the Submit one-shot, and Superman Beyond, I can tell you that Beyond is the only tie-in that's necessary to understand the whole thing. If you read that, Final Crisis is by and large easy to comprehend. There are still a few confusing bits, but it's far from all-out incomprehensible as some are describing. The overall plot becomes crystal clear... if you read Superman Beyond.

If anything, this comic's probably the perfect ammunition for decompression fans, as it's a perfect example of just how wrong things can go when you try to put in too much story. It often read like little more than a list of plot beats than an actual story. I thought there were quite a number of interesting ideas but so few of them get developed. More often than not, as soon as one appeared, the series quickly zipped off to the next idea.

 

[Greg Cox]

Seriously though, how much/many of the cross over comics are you allowed to draw from for your novel because assume there must be a limit to some degree sideways?

I have a pretty free hand to borrow from the tie-ins as needed. I keep that to the minimum, just to keep the novels down to a reasonable length, but if there's a line or a scene that I think will really add to the book, then I'll find a way to work it in.

On INFINITE CRISIS, for example, I lifted Jade's death scene from THE RANN-THANAGAR WAR tie-in because that seemed too important to leave out . . . .

 

[Guy Gardener]

As much as I rag on Poochy, that's some heavy burden to carry... Although Kyle seems to deal a heck of a lot better than John over Katma Tui, and I have this fear that Ice's resurrection has been kidnapped by the Corps title to rebrand the Norwegian princess as just another new Star Sapphire... Ice Sapphire?

 

[RobertScorpio]

After reading your review, which I am sure is 100 percent correct, I am so glad I stopped really caring about main "DC" universe. Its a mess. Looking back, I wish Superman E-2 had killed everyone in that last crisis. The heros of today's DC COMICS are morons, and most of them are dark and no where near being heros.

The absolute only character I care about is the Superman from Kingdom Come, currently residing in JSA. If they kill him off, as is rumored, I will just stop reading DC...

the fricking cartoons, even Brave and the Bold, are better. I wouldn't let my son read nuDC if you paid me money.

Rob

 

[Mr Light]

I bet FC would make a lot more sense as a novel... particularly since it would doubtlessly include all those tie-ins I didn't read. And not be so rushed and drug-induced. After all, if the 52 novelization which covered 52 comics, was the same number of pages, surely there's plenty of room to go in depth when there's only 7 issues plus to cover.

Not to mention that there's so fewer characters in FC than in IC. I remember reading the IC novel back when I didn't know anything about DC comics and it was a little overwhelming... "Who the hell is Dr. Polaris and the Body Doubles?!" IC was so dependent on vast casts of characters whereas FC is a much smaller story in comparison.

 

[sidious618]

The final issue left a bit to be desired. I was confused but it sure looked pretty!

 

[TemporalFlux]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but the Batman belt is different at the end of Final Crisis #7; compare it to the belt he was wearing in Final Crisis #6 when he died. Darkseid's omega beams can do all sorts of teleportation through time and space and even cause two objects to swap places...but why would Darkseid bother swapping a belt? It could be an art error, but I think it's a story point instead. There's something that's not what it seems with the Batman at the end of Final Crisis #7.

That said, Final Crisis was a bunch of really interesting ideas that had no coherent story tying them together. It's a shame.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, but the Batman belt is different at the end of Final Crisis #7; compare it to the belt he was wearing in Final Crisis #6 when he died. Darkseid's omega beams can do all sorts of teleportation through time and space and even cause two objects to swap places...but why would Darkseid bother swapping a belt? It could be an art error, but I think it's a story point instead. There's something that's not what it seems with the Batman at the end of Final Crisis #7.

That said, Final Crisis was a bunch of really interesting ideas that had no coherent story tying them together. It's a shame.

I don't suppose someone could scan pictures of the two belts for those of us who don't have the issue.

 

[DarkHelmet]

I love DC.. I buy almost all the titles. I have read all the FC tie-ins.

Somebody tell me what the fuck happened in this series. Seriously. What a clusterfuck.

Infinite Crisis was a masterpiece by comparison.

 

[TemporalFlux]

I don't suppose someone could scan pictures of the two belts for those of us who don't have the issue.

I would, but unfortunately I don't access to my stuff at the moment. :\ Hopefully someone else can come through.

However, the belt of the Bats who died in Final Crisis #6 is the pouch belt we've been seeing him wear for the last decade or so. The belt of the Bats at the end of Final Crisis #7 was something akin to the yellow capsule belt Batman wore during the 1970's and 80's.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't suppose someone could scan pictures of the two belts for those of us who don't have the issue.

I would, but unfortunately I don't access to my stuff at the moment. :\ Hopefully someone else can come through.

However, the belt of the Bats who died in Final Crisis #6 is the pouch belt we've been seeing him wear for the past few years now. The belt of the Bats at the end of Final Crisis #7 was something akin to the yellow capsule belt Batman wore during the 1970's and 80's.

I kind of figured that was what you ment when you talked about the belt changing but I just wanted to be sure, also I think the capsule belt was also used in the 90s as well.

 

[JoeZhang]

I don't think the series worked but it was an interesting failure.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Q. What happens when you pull Grant Morrisons finger?

A. Final Crisis.

I should read it all again and it will make sense, I must be a dillhole, they don't let Kafka meets Burroughs be made as comic books targetted at children... Abandon Hope all ye who enter.

 

[Mr Light]

Given the dozen or so artists rushing like mad to make these last two issues see print, I fully expect the Bat-Belt to be an error.

I've been thinking back about the Countdown weekly, which I read "of" but didn't read. In the final analysis... what was the Great Disaster and why was Ray Palmer important? I thought this was about FC, but the only thing Ray did was help out a little on the machine at the end. So was the Great Disaster just the Morticoccus virus that was dealt with in Countdown? Did they solve that storyline there? Did Ray save the day there?

I forget the specifics but I remember they mention Morticoccus ONCE in FC#7. Perhaps this was the single thing Morrison said that DC Editorial forced him to add to the series?

Furthermore, what was the point of showing the slow temptation of Mary Marvel by Eclipso when it turns out in FC she possessed by Desaad, which I read on wiki but don't remember in the comic. How was she saved from this?

And the whole bit about Jimmy Olsen... I guess that was purely related to Countdown and not to FC then?

And what about the Monarch and his multi-dimensional army? I thought that was the whole lead-in for FC, but didn't he and Superman-Prime blow each other up and then we never saw Monarch again and SMP ended up in the Legion future?

 

[DarkHelmet]

Given the dozen or so artists rushing like mad to make these last two issues see print, I fully expect the Bat-Belt to be an error.

I've been thinking back about the Countdown weekly, which I read "of" but didn't read. In the final analysis... what was the Great Disaster and why was Ray Palmer important? I thought this was about FC, but the only thing Ray did was help out a little on the machine at the end. So was the Great Disaster just the Morticoccus virus that was dealt with in Countdown? Did they solve that storyline there? Did Ray save the day there?

I forget the specifics but I remember they mention Morticoccus ONCE in FC#7. Perhaps this was the single thing Morrison said that DC Editorial forced him to add to the series?

Furthermore, what was the point of showing the slow temptation of Mary Marvel by Eclipso when it turns out in FC she possessed by Desaad, which I read on wiki but don't remember in the comic. How was she saved from this?

And the whole bit about Jimmy Olsen... I guess that was purely related to Countdown and not to FC then?

And what about the Monarch and his multi-dimensional army? I thought that was the whole lead-in for FC, but didn't he and Superman-Prime blow each other up and then we never saw Monarch again and SMP ended up in the Legion future?

Exactly. None of this made any sense. I don't know if it's Morrison, or DiDio, or both and/or others... but after so much fucking hype about how this would have SO MUCh effect on the DCU it is a complete and utter letdown.

 

[TemporalFlux]

^ Well, you can see shades of the various Countdown stories in Final Crisis; but it's pretty clear Didio was trying to horn in on Morrison's story without really consulting Morrison about it. Monarch's storyline was essentially a copy of what happened in Superman Beyond / Final Crisis with Billy Batson, etc. banding together an army of alternate reality Supermen to fight the Dark Monitor. Mary's storyline was a stretch off Morrison's single idea of Desaad and Mary Marvel. Jimmy's storyline was torn from the New Gods inhabiting human bodies. Ray's story was an allusion to the Metron symbol that innoculated people and worlds from the virus of the anti-life.

All of the Didio Countdown extensions were messy and not really related, but you can see where he lifted a piece or two from Morrison's initial outline thinking he had enough to know what was going on...Didio barely had a clue (which he can't be wholly faulted for - even I have problems finding a clue in Final Crisis).

That said, I did forget about something until just now; Superman essentially used the miracle machine to remake all of reality into his image. This could explain why Bruce is back alive again; Superman unknowingly wished it so (the time lost location of Bruce being a physical manifestation of how Bruce's resurrection was buried in Superman's subconscious). It would be interesting to see what other modifications Superman has unknowingly made.

There is also the entire thing about the Fifth World with the implication that the DC Heroes are now the New Gods having defeated and destroyed the old gods of the Fourth World (much like the Fourth did to the Third). If that is the case, then the metaphor of the final scene in Final Crisis could be that Bruce has laid down his human arms in order to become something more - a legend; a god.

There were rumors about all of this in Rich Johnston's column all the way back when Infinite Crisis was coming out. It was rumored that after Infinite Crisis Bruce was going to end up insane and in Arkham (which sort of happened in R.I.P.), and Bruce would then die only to come back as a god. We've hit every step now except the god part, and the finale of Final Crisis could be setting that up.

 

[Mr Light]

Whew. I woke up early this morning so I read the entire run of FC in a single sitting. Now I understand the story much better, yet I'm looking at the details and parts of it have become even MORE incoherent.

I noticed that in #7 Lois shoots the time capsule into the limbo/void/whatever and it has a little box with a bat on it. This identical rocket appears crashed in the past where Batman ends up with Old Anthro. So I guess Bat's mummy corpse was in the rocket, it somehow crashed on primordial Earth, and Bats was resurrected, presumably by Superman's use of the Miracle Machine.

So Bats is in ancient Earth drawing the Bat symbol in a cave painting. I bet you after Battle for the Cowl, someone is going to uncover this cave painting and then they'll know Bats in the past, and some hero will travel back in time to retrieve him. Nice vacay. Actually they did show a panel in an early FC issue of tv coverage of people discovering Anthro's cave paintings, I wonder if the Bat symbol was there? Almost tempted to back and look

In #1 when the Monitors meet and Nix gets exiled, there's one panel of an "evil" Monitor talking to someone now we can begin! This is never followed up on. Unless this is Mandrakk the evil red space vampire Dark Monitor from #7 (and Superman Beyond people tell me). Was this followed up on in S-B?

What was the point of the Japanese Super Team and Mister Miracle? All they did was show the surviving heroes the face-shield from Anti-Life, but didn't the Tatooed Man also show them? I forget already. On the same subject, why did the Tatooed Man (who I've never even heard of!) get more screen time than Supes or Bats or Wonder Woman?

So at the end of #7 the Monitors die and get reborn as mortal humans. But they seemed to be against this, only Nix wanted it. So why did it happen? Is Nix now the only enpowered Monitor and he did this against their will?

In #7 the Monitors talk about the horrible things that happened to Universe-51. From Wiki I read this is the Great Disaster/Morticoccus virus stuff in Countdown. Perhaps this was the one thing DC Editorial made Morrison add? Because it seems to have nothing to do with FC.

On the single Morticoccus mention. They say that they're using it to infect the heroes and rob them of their powers but the bad guys are immune to it. Hunh? First of all, we didn't see this happen at all in FC, nobody got depowered. Second of all, in Countdown (as I read) it was a virus that turned people into savage animals and killed them.

So all the New Gods died. The evil ones were reborn inhabiting humans. Metron was also reborn as that dude in the prison who solved the rubiks' cube then helped Nix save the day (but not against Darkseid, naturally, but the space vampire). At the end of #7 we see a panel of the backsides of Highfather, Mister Miracle (orig), Big Barda, and Lightray looking down on Earth. So they get reborn, but after the fact? Why? And apparently the Japanese Super Team is the reincarnation of the Forever People kids.

But what happens to the evil New Gods? Is Darkseid dead forever? Apparently his death created the black hole at the center of creation. As much as I love Darkseid, after this horrendous affair I never want to see him again. Ugh. Anyway, what happened to the rest? Desaad was in Mary Marvel but then they made her revert to mortal form; is Desaad still in there? Kalibak was gutted by Tawky so I guess he's dead. Darkseid appeared to have killed Glorious Godfrey and that yellow face guy I don't know for no particular reason. What about Mister Simian, another one I've never heard of? What happened to Granny Goodness? Last I recall she was going for the Oan Central Battery which they shunted away but I can't remember if they caught/killed her or just ran away...

For the ultimate final Darkseid story, he doesn't do anything. All the stuff that's happened it's just his minions doing stuff. He's dormant inside Turpin's body until the end of #4 or #5 I believe. Even then he's apparently dying anyway from wounds Orion did (which makes no sense within the context of FC since he fires a bullet at him from the future in #7 to kill him and never sees Orion- but if you count Countdown then I guess it's the fight at the end)... then he's dying from Batman's bullet... but then they still need have the Flashes chase the omega beams AND the Black Racer into him... Awful lot to kill someone who doesn't really do anything

I also read DC Universe #O at the start. It promises another Crisis on Multiple Earths! But this never really happened. The entire Darkseid story never involves another Earth, it's only in the last half of #7 they whip out the Supermen Army to stop the space vampire we've never heard of before.

I find it odd they spend all this time building up Nix and Metron-reborn when they don't do anything against Darkseid and only help against the space vampire at the end (who I must say again comes out of left field!). So in #1 when we see Metron appear to Anthro to give him the face-shield design, is that the reborn-Metron in a flash forward to after the end of FC?

Where was the Spectre during all this? They showed Checkmate/Zatanna trying to contact him, but what's he doing? And where are all the other DC gods and cosmic beings?

So as I've read Libra in his first appearance became one with the universe and became a god or something. Now he comes back as the main lieutenant of Darkseid. Of course, he does practically nothing within the pages of FC, and then Luthor blasts him away with one gunshot. Very disappointing.

On the same subject, what was the point of the Human Flame? Remember before FC started there was all this talk about THE RETURN OF LIBRA AND THE HUMAN FLAME! That really went nowhere. Last we saw the Flame, Libra stuck a Justifer helmet on his head and that's it.

What was the point of Libra recruiting the Secret Societ back together when in #3 they unleash the Anti-Life Equation and basically turn everyone into slaves anyway? What's the point of recruiting these people? What was the point of Intergang and the Crime Bible? Did they really require these people to help round up the people who didn't succomb? Or do they just feel the spiritual need to preach the glories of evil?

What was the point of Barry returning from the dead? They needed him to help Wally run those omega beams into Darkseid who was already dying anyway from Bat's bullet and Orion's wounds? The bigger question is who brought Barry back from the dead? He says at one point his body was reconstitued by someone/thing. Was it Nix? Was it Superman's Miracle Machine working in the future? Or is this a mystery we're going to learn in Flash: Rebirth?

So, a bomb goes off in the Daily Planet and Lois is dying. Supes has to stay by her side keeping her alive with her heat vision. The lady Monitor whisks him away to Superman Beyond (the spin-off you don't need to read which introduces the villian at the end of #7 who they say is worse than Darkseid). At the start of #7 Supes is in the future at the end of the Legion mini (which we're told takes place right after Superman Beyond), which means he hasn't been back to Lois yet. He gets returned to the "present" too late, after Darkseid took over and Bats is "dead". So... what about Lois? Why isn't she dead? We see her in #7 on the Watchtower safe and sound with no explanation. Did she get saved in Superman Beyond, the tie-in you don't need to read?

 

[ClayinCA]

Thanks. I had the advantage of being able to read the entire comic book saga, and go back and fine-tune things, before the novel saw print. Prose also gives you a lot more room for exposition and characterization. I sympathize with any comic book writer who has to cram his entire story into exactly twenty-two pages an issue . . . .

On the other hand, the comic book versions have better visuals!

Dare I mention (ahem) that I'm working on a FINAL CRISIS novelization now?

Greg,

I really enjoyed your novelisations of Infinite Crisis and 52. What hard work that must have been (especially the latter, with all its plot threads).

Congratulations/condolences on the news that you're working on novelising Final Crisis. Have you started bleeding out of your ears yet?

 

[Greg Cox]

Thanks. I had the advantage of being able to read the entire comic book saga, and go back and fine-tune things, before the novel saw print. Prose also gives you a lot more room for exposition and characterization. I sympathize with any comic book writer who has to cram his entire story into exactly twenty-two pages an issue . . . .

On the other hand, the comic book versions have better visuals!

Dare I mention (ahem) that I'm working on a FINAL CRISIS novelization now?

Greg,

I really enjoyed your novelisations of Infinite Crisis and 52. What hard work that must have been (especially the latter, with all its plot threads).

Congratulations/condolences on the news that you're working on novelising Final Crisis. Have you started bleeding out of your ears yet?

Hey, I'm getting to write Superman, Batman AND Frankenstein. I've got no complaints. In the meantime, btw, my COUNTDOWN novelization comes out in July . . . just in time for Comic-Con!