Welcome to the future! You must have come from the year 2004, the last time he wrote a vertigo series.
Final Crisis #6 and Batman
- Thread starter Ultimale
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Welcome to the future! You must have come from the year 2004, the last time he wrote a vertigo series.
Killing Batman (even temporarily) while the character is at the height of his popularity after The Dark Knight is a very foolish move by DC.
This comes up time and time again and it's largely irrelevant - monthly comics are bought by a small group of hardcore people vis specialist shops. I check the sales figures every time a new film comes out - and be it Ironman, Spider-man, Batman, the Hulk etc, there is no sales spike.
People just do not connect the comics with the films - it doesn't happen.
^Yep. A dead character in a comic book doesn't mean a movie can't be made about that character.
I wouldn't know. I don't really keep track of the guy unless he's shitting in my cornflakes, which tends to be more often then I'd like. All I know is that he wrote some pretentious crap, had a Justice League run, then wrote more pretentious crap.
He also has a bunch of Internet Nerds in brownshirts for fans who are willing to strap TNT onto themselves and smite his enemies. I say we do the world a favor and let them and Joss Whedon fans fight it out for bragging rights to be crowned the most annoying bastards on the Internet. To the death. Pay-Per-View. In Vegas at The Mirage. I'll get a Coke and a big batch of popcorn for that.
I miss Judd Winnick. There I said it. I now take back everything bad I ever said about Jason Todd's big comeback tour. Sure, it's kind of like chosing between Uwe Boll and M. Night Shamalamadingdong. But no one has any standards of quality for Winnick or Boll. But depressingly so, people do of Morrison and The Nightster.
What's pathetic is that when Superman died - for all of like what 5-6 months? There was HUGE media attention. When Captain America died, there was HUGE media attention and Intenet bitching. When they broke Batman's back waaaaay back in the 90s there was SOME media attention. When Superman turned frickin BLUE there was Media attention.
Now. Hah. Nothing. Good for DC. Serves 'em right. And y'know what in a couple months we'll either have the original back and badder than ever or a new guy for a few more months and then somehow "hypertime' or another Earth or whatever will bring him back and we'll all bitch and moan how they did it.
Honestly if they wanted to off him, then off him. Have him go out a hero, and be done with it. Give us Grayson or someone to replace him, I think it would be a beautiful way to do it. Bats dies saving Gotham or something, maybe even something that essentially brings about an 'end' to his 'war'. Dick takes up the mantle in honor of his mentor and becomes the new Bats and as he's already an accepted part of the superhero community as both Robin and Nightwing, he's given his spot on the JLA and looked at as taking Bruce's spot entirely. I can even see Bruce willing WE to Dick and Jason. I mean I think Dick was always looked at as being Bruce's successor. Just as Bucky took on the mantle of Captain America and made the role his own. So should Dick.
At least it would be a story that the media and others would latch onto and feel sentimental about. Which makes me think he's not dead at all and its just some kinda hoax or he 'beamed' himself out and beamed in another corpse with his costume on and he's in the shadows smirking. Remember Batman can do just about anything with enough planning.
I have no problem with new guys taking on old roles. I honestly liked Wally West far more than I liked Barry Allen. I liked Kyle Rayner a LOAD more than I ever liked Hal Jordan.
Now. Hah. Nothing. Good for DC. Serves 'em right. And y'know what in a couple months we'll either have the original back and badder than ever or a new guy for a few more months and then somehow "hypertime' or another Earth or whatever will bring him back and we'll all bitch and moan how they did it.
Honestly if they wanted to off him, then off him. Have him go out a hero, and be done with it. Give us Grayson or someone to replace him, I think it would be a beautiful way to do it. Bats dies saving Gotham or something, maybe even something that essentially brings about an 'end' to his 'war'. Dick takes up the mantle in honor of his mentor and becomes the new Bats and as he's already an accepted part of the superhero community as both Robin and Nightwing, he's given his spot on the JLA and looked at as taking Bruce's spot entirely. I can even see Bruce willing WE to Dick and Jason. I mean I think Dick was always looked at as being Bruce's successor. Just as Bucky took on the mantle of Captain America and made the role his own. So should Dick.
At least it would be a story that the media and others would latch onto and feel sentimental about. Which makes me think he's not dead at all and its just some kinda hoax or he 'beamed' himself out and beamed in another corpse with his costume on and he's in the shadows smirking. Remember Batman can do just about anything with enough planning.
I have no problem with new guys taking on old roles. I honestly liked Wally West far more than I liked Barry Allen. I liked Kyle Rayner a LOAD more than I ever liked Hal Jordan.
Yeah I haven't really seen any stories about Batman's "death" so maybe that is an indication that Bruce will be coming back.
Why is "pretentious" always used as a synonym for "above my reading ability"?
I don't actually like Morrison's stuff but it's the lazy and feeble minded that dismiss it as "pretentious".
Bush has gone, nobody has to pretend to be a one-eyed cousin of their sister anymore.
I don't actually like Morrison's stuff but it's the lazy and feeble minded that dismiss it as "pretentious".
Bush has gone, nobody has to pretend to be a one-eyed cousin of their sister anymore.
Pretentious meaning people will fawn and gush over whatever line of crap Morrison pumps out and then thinks he's doing the comics word a favor by adding his story to the lore. From the Morrison stuff I've read he tries to make his stories seem SO IMPORTANT and yet are usually wiped out by the next creative team. Look at New X-Men for an example. He had some pretty gruesome ideas. He tried to be 'edgy' and 'dark'. This is also the same guy who had Emma and Scott have a telepathic affair, Something that had already been done during the late teens/20s issues of X-Men in the 90s with Scott and Psylocke.
Its not 'beyond someone's reading ability' so I don't know where you get the idea that when people call him pretentious that they just can't 'under stand' his stories. If you mean by understand WHY THE FARK he would do some thing, then yeah sure. Okay I'm a fuckin' idiot. He killed Batman and I'm a retard because I don't know why he even bothered. Although I'll reserve judgement until after I've seen a few more issues to see if this was just a 'single' issue thing and then he's back in a couple months.
But his stuff is usually treated as sooooo earth shaking, but in the final analysis, really isn't. But there are some people who just gobble up his stuff like it's ambrosia and take it.
Its not 'beyond someone's reading ability' so I don't know where you get the idea that when people call him pretentious that they just can't 'under stand' his stories. If you mean by understand WHY THE FARK he would do some thing, then yeah sure. Okay I'm a fuckin' idiot. He killed Batman and I'm a retard because I don't know why he even bothered. Although I'll reserve judgement until after I've seen a few more issues to see if this was just a 'single' issue thing and then he's back in a couple months.
But his stuff is usually treated as sooooo earth shaking, but in the final analysis, really isn't. But there are some people who just gobble up his stuff like it's ambrosia and take it.
I like Grant Morrison.
He's completely hit and miss with me - I liked Superman beyond but mostly it doesn't speak to me - however, it's still quality material.
It's more an indication that the media already covered what they thought was going to be Batman's death at the end of Batman R.I.P. (only, he just went underground) and now can't be arsed enough to care.
Morrison is a good writer, but I just wish he wouldn't keep fucking with established characters and status quo's. He's one of those writers that like 'Change for the Sake of Change'. If someone's wearing black, he'd want them to start wearing blue. If someone's a red head then they should be a blonde. Figuratively of course. He's got good ideas, but I just dislike the execution of said ideas. I mean, he's sort of in the vein of Moore and Miller, who loooove to deconstruct whatever characters they touch. I know one convention of writing is 'torture the hero', find out what makes them tick. But how many times can one hero/character/concept be 'deconstructed?' Secondly, Morrison is a big fan of creating controversy simply to create controversy. Its not enough for him to say, kill off a character, he has to make the way they died controversial, which in other words mean, "WHAT THE F..." Wasn't Morrison who introduced the idea of Charles Xaivier having a 'twin in the womb that he tried to kill? What the?
So who knows, maybe Bruce will re-appear in Darkseid's arse and then stand covered in Darkseid goo and say 'I always have a plan.'
So who knows, maybe Bruce will re-appear in Darkseid's arse and then stand covered in Darkseid goo and say 'I always have a plan.'
"You don't agree with me so you're a stupidhead!"
I spent a whole summer reading nothing but 18th century American authors. I especially enjoyed Thoreau and Frederick Douglas. I'm fairly certain I can make it through a comic book. Even one written by a self-indulgent narcissist with delusions of Alan Moore. If I want overbearing complexity, I'll read War and Peace.
I dislike his comics for the same reason I dislike 70's prog rock(Pink Floyd being the only exception). It's sacrificing the fun, youthful, and gleeful simplicity of a medium and turning it into an unnecisarry intellectual statement that isn't nearly as smart as it likes to think it is. Thank God for The Sex Pistols and Jeph Johns.
It's just as lazy and feeble minded to asume just because it's complex, mature, challenging, and cutting edge that automatically makes it enjoyable by default.
Well said Thrall
I mean sometimes I honestly want a comic book to BE FUN! To be entertaining and a maybe even make me smile. If I wanted some heavy handed and existential, I'd read something else. I want a comic book to entertain me enough to want to the read the next issue, smile and maybe surprise me.
Not piss me off. I hate it when comics piss me off. Doesn't mean its a good story, means I want to toss it. And a $3 comic is not something I want to toss. Honestly I'm reading the 'kid's 'Marvel Adventures comics and enjoying them far far more than the mainline stuff. Picked up a couple of the Avengers collected books (the team with a non Jerkwad Iron Man, Steve Rogers Cap, Spider-Man, Giant Girl, Storm and Wolverine) on clearance at Target and honestly I pick it up at least a few times a month. I get more enjoyment out of that than I do with the current Avengers or the Ultimates.
I even seek out old back issues of Batman back when he was dark but it worked and he was more of a detective.
Lately it feels like my choice to become a back issue bin buyer is paying off. I can just ignore the new stuff I don't like.
I mean sometimes I honestly want a comic book to BE FUN! To be entertaining and a maybe even make me smile. If I wanted some heavy handed and existential, I'd read something else. I want a comic book to entertain me enough to want to the read the next issue, smile and maybe surprise me.
Not piss me off. I hate it when comics piss me off. Doesn't mean its a good story, means I want to toss it. And a $3 comic is not something I want to toss. Honestly I'm reading the 'kid's 'Marvel Adventures comics and enjoying them far far more than the mainline stuff. Picked up a couple of the Avengers collected books (the team with a non Jerkwad Iron Man, Steve Rogers Cap, Spider-Man, Giant Girl, Storm and Wolverine) on clearance at Target and honestly I pick it up at least a few times a month. I get more enjoyment out of that than I do with the current Avengers or the Ultimates.
I even seek out old back issues of Batman back when he was dark but it worked and he was more of a detective.
Lately it feels like my choice to become a back issue bin buyer is paying off. I can just ignore the new stuff I don't like.
I do too, even his far more off the wall and less accessible writing like The Invisibles. But I'm not enjoying his Final Crisis run at all (can't speak to R.I.P., I am waiting for it to come out in trade). I'm reading FC - and all the tie ins - because I want to see what major changes he makes to the DCU, if any; but I'm finding it to be a bit of a chore. Pretentious? Not so much. A joyless read? That's about right.
An aside: after reading the issue, and before opening this thread, I expected this thread to be full of outrage over Batman's use of (for all practical purposes) a gun. More than a bit surprised it isn't.
In DiDio's weekly question and answer session with Newsarama he touches on this when answering two questions:
Interpretations may differ, but here's mine: "We can't go out and make a big deal about Batman's death in Issue #6, and then Issue #7 rolls around and you find out Batman's not so much dead, only as good as dead, but still very much alive."
.
Honestly unless they completely retired the Batman character and there's as much chance of them doing that as there is of me crapping diamonds, 'the death of Batman' won't be anything worth reporting over. At least with Captain America, they put a new/old guy in the suit and the name, which I think was pretty ballsy. And there's no real indication that Steve Rogers will be coming back anytime soon... but with this, there are so many DC comics ways he could come back its sad.
I'm still waiting for Kyle Rayner's girlfriend Alex to come back to life again. Or Bruce's parents.
I'm still waiting for Kyle Rayner's girlfriend Alex to come back to life again. Or Bruce's parents.
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