Fifth Movie

[Trekker4747]

Um.... FC has a 92% on rotten tomatoes... not that this should really matter? Some movies that most critics dislike I think were great. For instance... I watch Heavyweights almost every summer. It's a classic. How could you not? 100 sci-fi movies? There probably aren't that many more than 100 major scifi- films.... Oh God... you like The Motion PIcture? 2nd or 3rd worst trek film.


2001/2010 both overrated. Pretty for their time.. horrible stories.

Close Encounters/Arnold Total Recall are great

You're pretty heavy-handed with your opinions, dude. Don't mistake 'em for facts.

.... You know you're talking to the moderator of the forum, right?

 

[Mudd]

So my point is this: people weren't sick of Star Trek, they were sick of crap that had the Star Trek name on it...

It doesn't matter whether "Star Trek fans" were sick of Trek or not.

Star Trek doesn't succeed or fail based on the behavior of trekkies, but on the interest of millions of other viewers who decide that watching a given TV show or paying to see a movie is a fun way to spend a couple of hours a week.

Those people were done. They were bored. They'd been moving on to other things for a decade.

The viewership numbers trended in only one direction. The numbers abandoning oldTrek just hit the critical level in the last few years of its production.

 

[BillJ]

The viewership numbers trended in only one direction. The numbers abandoning oldTrek just hit the critical level in the last few years of its production.

I'm not even sure many Trekkies are interested anymore? Going to the Cincinnati Comic Expo last weekend and Wizard Con in Indianapolis last year, there seems to be very little activity where Trek is concerned.

I think we're an audience that is simply dying out.

 

[Mudd]

Well, you can expect the core two-to-four-million trekkies in the U.S. to turn up for any movie premiere or most weeks of a TV show. Whether we continue to spend our disposable income and time on things like conventions as we age is another kind of thing; it's an ancillary activity.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I had read that they had a script that Brent Spiner was part of and originally Paramount was going to do one more movie as a wrap-up, but decided not to. Why is that? Is anyone else really disappointed by this? I know "all good things" must come to an end.... but it would've been a nice send-off. The ending of Nemesis is sort of conclusive, but still.

Supposedly, Spiner's idea was a "Justice League of Trek" movie, bringing together all the characters they could (afford) using time travel, and pitting the heroes against a similar team of villains.

I'd have gotten a kick out of it (I actually enjoyed Nemesis), but I've no doubt that the movie we eventually got instead was a massive step up.

 

[BillJ]

Well, you can expect the core two-to-four-million trekkies in the U.S. to turn up for any movie premiere or most weeks of a TV show. Whether we continue to spend our disposable income and time on things like conventions as we age is another kind of thing; it's an ancillary activity.

I was just surprised, even among older convention goers, how little "Star Trek" there was at either event. One vendor had Star Trek action figures and they were in a bucket under his table.

It just seems like CBS and Paramount haven't done a very good job in translating Star Trek into something younger fans of sci-fi and fantasy will embrace and be passionate about. Which I think is bad for the long term viability of the franchise.

 

[Trekkin]

This thread

I love First Contact but it would not be in my top 10 sci-fi movies of all time. It was not a particularly original premise for a sci-fi movie or a Star Trek story in all fairness.

Each to their own

I'm like that. I do like it, but it doesn't even top my list of favourite Trek let alone 'greatest Sci-Fi.'


I think there is a little something to be said for over saturation. Not that it excuses the part played by declining quality, but I think prior to 09 a lot of non-fans might not have known where to start even if they were curious. I can remember trying to explain it to my friends at the time, and they didn't really understand how the franchise worked. They knew there was a Kirk and he was Shatner, but was the bald guy also Kirk? The bald guy was important, so why wasn't he in the new movie? Where does the woman captain fit into all of this?

Now, a lack of coverage in Australia might have played a part in that. But the impression I got was that alot of non-fans at the time just saw a big, convuluted 'Star Trek'-shaped mass.

So not so much 'too much Star Trek' as 'too much Star Trek all at once.'

 

[Dukhat]

.... You know you're talking to the moderator of the forum, right?

I'm sure he didn't, which as far as I'm concerned is fucking fantastic.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Well, you can expect the core two-to-four-million trekkies in the U.S. to turn up for any movie premiere or most weeks of a TV show. Whether we continue to spend our disposable income and time on things like conventions as we age is another kind of thing; it's an ancillary activity.

I was just surprised, even among older convention goers, how little "Star Trek" there was at either event. One vendor had Star Trek action figures and they were in a bucket under his table.

It just seems like CBS and Paramount haven't done a very good job in translating Star Trek into something younger fans of sci-fi and fantasy will embrace and be passionate about. Which I think is bad for the long term viability of the franchise.

Why would they bother when they can make money without having to spend a dime on investing in "new fans?"

Its cynical and depressing, but Star Trek has a core of devotees that will pony up money for anything and everything, and as long as they continue to do so, CBS will pocket their money and leave things as they are.

 

[TheSubCommander]

If there were a 5th TNG film, I would have seen it, and I think most here would have too. Even the loudest complainers. Don't lie guys, you know you would have, even if to bitch about it afterwards.

Yeah, Nemesis was a seriously flawed film. Yeah, maybe TNG should have ended with AGT. But people said the same things about TFF as they did with NEM (how bad it was, etc) and they still came back for TUC. I think had it been marketed right, a 5th TNG film could have been made and done well in the theaters. But Paramount/CBS had it in their heads that if Nemesis didn't make x amount, then the reboot would happen. And when Enterprise didn't make its ratings, it got cancelled to, only further solidifying the reboot.

The biggest mistake the producers of Nemesis made was touting it as a Generation's End, and the actors (Spiner and Stewart) running around saying things to the effect that a sequel depends on how well Nemesis does, BEFORE release and WHILE the movie is still in the theaters. That basically tells everyone "That's it! no more TNG," and once the bad buzz got around, I think it turned people off and the only ones who showed to see the film in theaters were the fans who were long time fans guaranteed to be there.

Cinematic-ally, however, I think the TNG films were beautiful to look at. I think the space scenes, especially Nemesis, hold up pretty well.

 

[Squiggy]

Well, you can expect the core two-to-four-million trekkies in the U.S. to turn up for any movie premiere or most weeks of a TV show. Whether we continue to spend our disposable income and time on things like conventions as we age is another kind of thing; it's an ancillary activity.

Quite right.

When you appeal to only those core Trekkies you get opening numbers like Nemesis and ratings like Enterprise.

If you want the franchise to continue then you have the change the franchise to keep up with changing tastes. You can't keep doing Berman era Trek, which was made for the 90s to worth 20 years later.

As far as conventions, they're becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's economy. Why wait to get something signed by someone when I get it on ebay whenever I want?

 

[Mudd]

It just seems like CBS and Paramount haven't done a very good job in translating Star Trek into something younger fans of sci-fi and fantasy will embrace and be passionate about. Which I think is bad for the long term viability of the franchise.

I think the old franchise is dead as far as commercial tv/movie production is concerned - the fact that Paramount is producing successful theatrical blockbusters using the IP disguises that to some extent.

James Bond has been a going concern for longer than Star Trek, while having few of the features we associate with the Trek franchise. I think something like that will be the model going forward.

As far as conventions, they're becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's economy. Why wait to get something signed by someone when I get it on ebay whenever I want?

The megaconventions are the whole game now - ComicCon, DragonCon etc. There was a time in the early 90s when fandom-specific conventions ruled; one herd of Star Trek conventions was said to have covered three states.

 

[Squiggy]

If there were a 5th TNG film, I would have seen it, and I think most here would have too. Even the loudest complainers. Don't lie guys, you know you would have, even if to bithc about it afterwards.

You're right. We all would've seen it.

There are 26,000 people registered on this website - even including the bots, dead members, and people who maybe posted once or twice to troll us because we're all nerds.

Congrats! TNG5 made 260,000 on a 60 million dollar budget. You've just produced the biggest bomb in movie history.

 

[Trekkin]

I saw Fifty Shades of Grey, Jupiter Ascending, every damn Twilight film, and Fan4stic at the cinema because of 1) sheer morbid curiosity, 2) social reasons, and 3) a brief lack of anything better to do.

Saying I would have gone to another TNG movie is not saying much.

 

[BillJ]

If there were a 5th TNG film, I would have seen it, and I think most here would have too. Even the loudest complainers. Don't lie guys, you know you would have, even if to bitch about it afterwards.

Yeah, I would have. I would have also went to see Star Trek: The Beginning, and watched The Final Frontier animated web series.

Like Squiggy pointed out, Star Trek fans, in and of themselves, aren't enough to make big dollar projects economically viable for the studio.

 

[Jedi_Master]

It just seems like CBS and Paramount haven't done a very good job in translating Star Trek into something younger fans of sci-fi and fantasy will embrace and be passionate about. Which I think is bad for the long term viability of the franchise.

I think the old franchise is dead as far as commercial tv/movie production is concerned - the fact that Paramount is producing successful theatrical blockbusters using the IP disguises that to some extent.

James Bond has been a going concern for longer than Star Trek, while having few of the features we associate with the Trek franchise. I think something like that will be the model going forward.

As far as conventions, they're becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's economy. Why wait to get something signed by someone when I get it on ebay whenever I want?

The megaconventions are the whole game now - ComicCon, DragonCon etc. There was a time in the early 90s when fandom-specific conventions ruled; one herd of Star Trek conventions was said to have covered three states.

I agree with both points. My parents are con junkies, and virtually every con they go to is a "joint con" collating various genres and fandoms under one roof with the goal of increasing attendance. There are a few, very few genre specific cons but they tend to be things like anime and steampunk that still cover a lot of ground.
Even when Trek actors do come to a larger convention, they don't pull the numbers that you might think.
One of the indelible images from a con I went to was Tim Russ dozing off at his table all by himself while a line 60 people long waited to talk to Bruce Boxleitner.

If Star Trek starts to follow the Bond model, that's fine by me.

 

[MacLeod]

It just seems like CBS and Paramount haven't done a very good job in translating Star Trek into something younger fans of sci-fi and fantasy will embrace and be passionate about. Which I think is bad for the long term viability of the franchise.

I think the old franchise is dead as far as commercial tv/movie production is concerned - the fact that Paramount is producing successful theatrical blockbusters using the IP disguises that to some extent.

James Bond has been a going concern for longer than Star Trek, while having few of the features we associate with the Trek franchise. I think something like that will be the model going forward.

As far as conventions, they're becoming increasingly irrelevant in today's economy. Why wait to get something signed by someone when I get it on ebay whenever I want?

The megaconventions are the whole game now - ComicCon, DragonCon etc. There was a time in the early 90s when fandom-specific conventions ruled; one herd of Star Trek conventions was said to have covered three states.

As has DW, but perhaps one difference is that whilst the actor might have changed they are still essentially the same character.


Well aside from the obvious unless it comes with a COA how can you trust that a signed ppicture off ebay is legit. And whilst specific cons for shows/films do still exist cons/events are more general thaese days. So you cater to a large audiance.

The few events that I attend these days are more a way to catch up with friends than for the actual guests.

 

[BillJ]

Even when Trek actors do come to a larger convention, they don't pull the numbers that you might think.
One of the indelible images from a con I went to was Tim Russ dozing off at his table all by himself while a line 60 people long waited to talk to Bruce Boxleitner.

It's tough going to these conventions, where the one-time King just isn't popular anymore.

If Star Trek starts to follow the Bond model, that's fine by me.

Pretty much where I'm at.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Even when Trek actors do come to a larger convention, they don't pull the numbers that you might think.
One of the indelible images from a con I went to was Tim Russ dozing off at his table all by himself while a line 60 people long waited to talk to Bruce Boxleitner.

It's tough going to these conventions, where the one-time King just isn't popular anymore.

I think the right phrase is "AS popular." There was obviously enough support for the convention organizers to ask Mr. Russ to attend, and enough reason for Tim to bother showing up. However, it was pretty clear he (and Brent Spiner) weren't in the top tier anymore.

 

[JesterFace]

If there were a 5th TNG film, I would have seen it, and I think most here would have too. Even the loudest complainers. Don't lie guys, you know you would have, even if to bithc about it afterwards.

You're right. We all would've seen it.

I wouldn't. I just don't like going to the movies. Last time was when... Star Wars Episode 3 came out. Will there even be a next time, I don't know...