Fifth Movie

[Jeffe525]

My point is that FF and INS hurt the box office turnout of TUC and NEM, but it is only one factor in those sequels ultimate success.

Well now you've lost me, because while TUC would be considered a success based on several factors, NEM was a complete failure based on other factors. But both were films made after a previous flopped film and both were billed as the final films of the series.

And honestly, I don't really believe that the success or failure of a film depends on the film that came before it (i.e. if the previous film was a failure it will cause the next film to be a failure.) Especially since Star Trek '09 came after Nemesis, and it was a complete success.

Or maybe I'm just not understanding your point.

...Or maybe I'm not explaining it right. Usually, I will not go out of my way to watch a sequel if its predecessor sucked. I can't believe that I'm alone on that. So IMO, both TUC and NEM would've done better at the box office had FF and INS been better movies. I'm just saying that they took a hit for it, not that it was the only reason the numbers landed where they did.

And I wouldn't apply that logic to ST09 since it was obvious to everyone, even nontrekkies, that it was a shiny, brand new thing.

Full Disclosure: At the time of their release, I personally did not punish the Trek franchise for failures (though FF pushed that rule to the limit).

Having said that, I am now old enough to realize that the only the Corporate Man will listen is when the consumer speaks with his wallet. Into Darkness got my automatic contribution because of ST09 (despite all my complaints about the reboot aspect, I still thought it was a solid movie). However, because of my disgust with ID, I will likely stay away from the movie theater for ST: Beyond.

I am just speaking as a jaded customer that has the balls to put his money where his mouth is. So at the very least, I can assure you that Beyond will at least take a $10 hit because of ID's disappointment; I can only hope I'm not alone.

 

[JesterFace]

I think that Star Trek doesn't translate well into movie format, it's a series and works well that way but... The only one that works as a movie is the very first Trek movie, it's like a long episode, but after that Trek movies didn't work for me.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Supposedly, Spiner's idea was a "Justice League of Trek" movie, bringing together all the characters they could (afford) using time travel, and pitting the heroes against a similar team of villains.

That is the worst idea for a Star Trek movie--ever. Its like a glorified WWE/fanboy circle jerk. That, and the long past its value gimmick of time travel.

That is about the only idea that would lift Generations (and a couple of ST films I will not name) out of its status of the worst Trek movie ever made.

 

[Jeffe525]

I think that Star Trek doesn't translate well into movie format, it's a series and works well that way but... The only one that works as a movie is the very first Trek movie, it's like a long episode, but after that Trek movies didn't work for me.

I agree with this. I liked the movies (mostly), but they were always stuck between trying to make it feel like Trek without being another episode. TNG had a worse time because they didn't have the luxury of time between the series and the movies.

If they're going to continue with movies (and they will as long as there's money to be made), I think they should consider doing each series and it's companion movies concurrently, like the X-Files. Maybe they could use a season to build up to a finale released in the theater.

I know that's unlikely to (ever) happen, but I think it's a good idea, or worth exploring anyway.

 

[BillJ]

I think that Star Trek doesn't translate well into movie format...

I think eight of the twelve are credible films. I find myself revisiting the movies far more than the episodes these days. I tend to like the larger scope the movies allow for.

 

[Kor]

+1 on Tim Russ. He had an understated sarcasm about his performance that, on the best of times, suggested a thinly veiled exasperation beneath the stoic exterior. Always suggested, always implied, but never shown that the wild emotions of humans amused him on some level. That's certainly a much more pleasant and engaging type of Vulcan to watch week in and week out than the perpetually pissed-off screen presence of Blalock. Fuck fidelity to TOS.

+1

I also wonder what logic there is in breast implants, T'pol?

Are also going to question why Kirk, Chekov and McCoy wore hairpieces? Or why so many Vulcans and Romulans wore wigs? And what's with the glamour makeup, T'Pring?

As far as the "glamour makeup," Vulcans do appreciate things like aesthetics, beauty, art, and music.

I despise the conformist Vulcan and Romulan bowl-cut wigs that dominated from TNG onward. And the Romulan football shoulder pads.

Kor

 

[BillJ]

And the Romulan football shoulder pads.

Them dudes were ready to make a goal-line tackle... any time, any place!

 

[T'Girl]

I also wonder what logic there is in breast implants, T'pol?

T'Pol might have just that, breast implants. She could have chosen to enhance her appearance for reasons of fashion and social trends. Her choice of apparel (cat suit) stems from the same motivations.

T'Pol is likely quite aware of the way she looks.

 

[Greg Cox]

I am just speaking as a jaded customer that has the balls to put his money where his mouth is. So at the very least, I can assure you that Beyond will at least take a $10 hit because of ID's disappointment; I can only hope I'm not alone.

So you're rooting for the next movie to fail because you didn't like the last one, even though it had a different director and writer?

How is that different from, say, "punishing" TUC because TFF was a disappointment?

 

[T'Girl]

Not going to see the next movie in the theaters doesn't automatically translate into "rooting for the next movie to fail" for all of us. I've already decided that I am not going to see the next film in the theaters, I'll wait until it hits cable or someone I know rents it.

Now if someone whose opinion I trust tells me it's considerable different than Darkness I would reconsider.

 

[Greg Cox]

Not going to see the next movie in the theaters doesn't automatically translate into "rooting for the next movie to fail" for all of us. I've already decided that I am not going to see the next film in the theaters, I'll wait until it hits cable or someone I know rents it.

Now if someone whose opinion I trust tells me it's considerable different than Darkness I would reconsider.

True, choosing not to see a particular movie in the theater is not necessarily rooting for it to fail. But opining that you hope others will do the same seems to cross into that territory . . .

("I can only hope I'm not alone.")

Why care about whether other people buy tickets unless you want the movie to fail at the box office?

 

[MacLeod]

IMO the success or failure of a sequel is largely representative of the quality of the previous film. NEM was a great movie but it still got punished for INS. NEM was advertised as the last installment from the start. Which means it was the wrap up, go out with a bang TNG movie it was supposed to be.

The exact same thing could be said of TUC vs. TFF. TUC came after a shitty failure of a film and was billed as the last installment from the start. But TUC was far more of a success that NEM was in the same circumstances. So that logic doesn't quite apply.

Well whilst NEM was th 15th Anniversary film for TNG, TUC was the 25th Anninversary for TOS which is generally considered a bigger event. And as the newer films have proved the names Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scotty have a wider cultural impact than the likes of Picard, Riker and Data.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

NEM was a great movie

No. No, it wasn't.

 

[BillJ]

Not going to see the next movie in the theaters doesn't automatically translate into "rooting for the next movie to fail" for all of us. I've already decided that I am not going to see the next film in the theaters, I'll wait until it hits cable or someone I know rents it.

Now if someone whose opinion I trust tells me it's considerable different than Darkness I would reconsider.

True, choosing not to see a particular movie in the theater is not necessarily rooting for it to fail. But opining that you hope others will do the same seems to cross into that territory . . .

("I can only hope I'm not alone.")

Why care about whether other people buy tickets unless you want the movie to fail at the box office?

I want Star Trek Beyond to do well enough that it cements the Abramsverse as the current "Star Trek", so that people that can't wrap their minds around their being multiple interpretations of material, get off the bus and move onto other things that they like.

I don't think a small group of people loudly bitching, moaning, complaining does anything to help the public perception of the franchise and Trekkies as a whole.

 

[BillJ]

NEM was a great movie

No. No, it wasn't.

I think I appreciate Nemesis more now than when it was released, but it definitely wasn't a "great movie".

 

[Squiggy]

NEM was a great movie

No. No, it wasn't.

I think I appreciate Nemesis more now than when it was released, but it definitely wasn't a "great movie".

It's not even a "good" "Star Trek" movie.

 

[Memory Alpha]

Well, even if Nemesis was god awful (the worst movie, IMO), which it was, and even if they felt like the TOS-TNG timeline had become diluted with spinoff stuff like DS9 and Voyager, which it did-- I still feel like they should have been allowed to make amends for it. The sad thing about Nemesis is that at the heart of it there is an intriguing idea: Finally, patched relations between the Federation and the Romulan Empire. Even I have to admit that I enjoy seeing those two warbirds and the Enterprise taking on the Scimitar. Unfortunately, I don't like a single other thing about the movie. The plot really is trash.

TNG hints at the possibility of the Romulans and Feds mending fences (The Defector, the Romulan commander's message to Picard in The Chase, the Spock plot, etc.), and this should have been the focus of the movie, which could have set up a beautiful fifth movie. I do hope that one day they return to this timeline, but unfortunately all the really good people who made TNG literally great won't be around.