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Fifth Movie

First Contact was not only a great movie.... it might be the best science fiction movie ever made... or pretty damn close to it...

...BillJ had the nerve to insult First Contact.

Critics AND fans alike loved it.

You have bad taste in movies if you dislike FC

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. Even if that opinion is clearly wrong. And no, I'm not talking about BillJ.

But I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suspect that you're just trying to bait people here by making nonsensical comments that I'm sure even you don't believe. Especially since your short posting history here has had a tendency to show exactly that.
 
That's a very specific denial. Didn't address about 90% of the comment.

Oh, and I am the sort of person who finds Blade Runner entertaining. And First Contact, Dark Star, Abrams Trek, Doctor Who, Silent Running, Alien, The incredible Shrinking Man, Planet of the Apes, Solaris, and Star Wars.

The idea of having a variety of tastes is a wild concept, I know.
 
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Spiner had issues with playing Data given how old he was looking. Data was supposed to be an ageless machine apparently, and looked much the same decades ahead in "All Good Things..." only with a dyed streak of gray in his hair. I can see why that was an issue for Spiner especially given that Data in the movies was more childlike than ever, and cheesy comic relief to boot - "flotation device" indeed. They did not have the character mature emotionally as he did in "All Good Things..."(!) so, yeah, I can see Spiner thinking a middle-aged man shouldn't be pretending he doesn't have jowls and playing in haystacks with children.


I'm sure they could have come up with some technobabble reason to make Data look older if they had wanted to. Besides today it wouldn't be an issue just use CGI to make the actor look younger.
 
'All Good Things...' had the technobabble solution. Either they forgot, or Spiner just didn't think it would cut the mustard.
 
NEM was a box office flop now that alone perhaps wouldn't be a reason not to do another film but I think with ENT tanking in the ratings as well they simply felt the market wasn't there.

I suspect this was the real nail in the coffin. Nemesis alone failing at the box office wasn't enough to kill the prospect of another movie. But Enterprise failing on TV screens as well just meant that the bottom fell completely out from under the Star Trek franchise. It gave various people in various stages of importance pause for thought.

AdmiralBruno said:
First Contact was not only a great movie.... it might be the best science fiction movie ever made. Critics AND fans alike loved it.

:rofl:

When the pundits do those 'Top 100 Sci-Fi Movies Of All Time' lists, First Contact is conspicuous by it's complete absence. ;) If a Star Trek movie even gets mentioned *at all*, and that's a very big If, then it's usually TWOK that gets the gong. First Contact is most certainly not the critics and fan's favourite. :guffaw:
 
BillJ had the nerve to insult First Contact.

Generally speaking, Star Trek is about as soft as soft sci-fi gets. That includes First Contact, The Abrams films, my personal favorite Trek movie: The Motion Picture.

Blade Runner, 2001, 2010, Close Encounters, Total Recall and many others are far better "sci-fi" movies than anything with a Star Trek label on it.
 
Um.... FC has a 92% on rotten tomatoes... not that this should really matter? Some movies that most critics dislike I think were great. For instance... I watch Heavyweights almost every summer. It's a classic. How could you not? :) 100 sci-fi movies? There probably aren't that many more than 100 major scifi- films.... Oh God... you like The Motion PIcture? 2nd or 3rd worst trek film.


2001/2010 both overrated. Pretty for their time.. horrible stories.

Close Encounters/Arnold Total Recall are great
 
And funnily enough, I like 2001 for the story and merely put up with the pretty lights. That's why I read Clarke's novels more often than I watch the movies. 2010 didn't have much in the way of endless light shows and was much more conventionally story focused.

How are 2001 and 2010 'For their time' anyway? There was over decade between them ('68 and '84 I believe), and they were the products of two very different types of people. Part of the reason people tend to forget about 2010 is because it differs so much in style from 2001.
 
Um.... FC has a 92% on rotten tomatoes... not that this should really matter? Some movies that most critics dislike I think were great. For instance... I watch Heavyweights almost every summer. It's a classic. How could you not? :) 100 sci-fi movies? There probably aren't that many more than 100 major scifi- films.... Oh God... you like The Motion PIcture? 2nd or 3rd worst trek film.


2001/2010 both overrated. Pretty for their time.. horrible stories.

Close Encounters/Arnold Total Recall are great

You're pretty heavy-handed with your opinions, dude. Don't mistake 'em for facts.
 
Um.... FC has a 92% on rotten tomatoes... not that this should really matter? Some movies that most critics dislike I think were great. For instance... I watch Heavyweights almost every summer. It's a classic. How could you not? :) 100 sci-fi movies? There probably aren't that many more than 100 major scifi- films.... Oh God... you like The Motion PIcture? 2nd or 3rd worst trek film.


2001/2010 both overrated. Pretty for their time.. horrible stories.

Close Encounters/Arnold Total Recall are great

You're pretty heavy-handed with your opinions, dude. Don't mistake 'em for facts.

welcome.gif
 
No matter what the internet, rotting tomato, overcooked banana or anyone else says, everyone can make up their own mid, don't conform. :) Be individual, not an internetBorg :)

My opinion is that I don't like First Contact, the movie. Episode with the same name is fun though.
 
NEM was a box office flop now that alone perhaps wouldn't be a reason not to do another film but I think with ENT tanking in the ratings as well they simply felt the market wasn't there.

I suspect this was the real nail in the coffin. Nemesis alone failing at the box office wasn't enough to kill the prospect of another movie. But Enterprise failing on TV screens as well just meant that the bottom fell completely out from under the Star Trek franchise. It gave various people in various stages of importance pause for thought.

See, this is where I respectfully disagree. Not about the various tv/movie producers/executives being scared, but the reasons why they were.

IMO, those same execs. saw "Star Trek" as a brand name and anything they slapped on it meant cash and that's exactly what they did with it, slap it on anything. So seeing the crap that was being made at the time had Star Trek on it and wasn't bringing in the money then it must be "franchise fatigue" and not terrible quality product. Forget about the fact that Star Trek, the original, was still doing just fine in reruns. That doesn't track their radar because reruns don't mean big profits. So my point is this: people weren't sick of Star Trek, they were sick of crap that had the Star Trek name on it and weren't going to take a gamble on yet another crap product with the brand slapped on it. It was all crap to them (executives), they didn't understand or care why people liked it, why we are still discussing shows that have been over decades later, so one more piece of crap should make just as much as another as long as it's got that brand.

So I think a Fifth movie would have had a real chore ahead of it but could have been great if it had the chance. A good movie might not have had the opening weekend they wanted but it would have had good word of mouth and legs for a longer showing time. Unlike the last two movies. And I'm sorry Enterprise fans but that was not a good show.

I think if they picked up with Patrick Stewart as the star and kept some of the others, like Levar Burton and Michael Dorn, it could have been a good movie, what ever it would have been. Maybe Worf could have been the first officer of the E E under Picard and Geordi the 3rd in command, it would have been nice if they had a first contact with a strange new civilization and showed how they try to get past their differences to reach some kind of communication with each other, possible even after some earlier hostilities. I think even if one of the other cast was brought back and the earlier hostilities actually resulted in their death/injury that it would make the accomplishment of the communication that much more of a victory. Maybe have the doctor or go. Not because I don't like her but because I do. Space is not for the timid. It's easy to kill off throwaway characters or characters on a show that's cancelled and it has little to no dramatic weight to it. Just imagine how powerful it would be for Picard to negotiate a peace with a new civilization that had killed Dr. Crusher through a misunderstanding. And for all of the TNG fans that feel like the ensemble was already getting cheated and this is even worse, I'm sorry but the only one that really would have the acting ability to do this would be Patrick Stewart. It would have to center on him. I personally think he could still be in a movie as Picard today, he's more than proven himself, but then I'm not an executive.
 
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This thread:rommie::rommie::rommie:

I love First Contact but it would not be in my top 10 sci-fi movies of all time. It was not a particularly original premise for a sci-fi movie or a Star Trek story in all fairness.

Each to their own:cool:
 
Well, getting us hardcore Trekkies to show up on opening weekend isn't the problem. Whether the rest of the world wanted a fifth movie was the question . . . .

Yep. This is the crux of any movie "debate." Hardcore fans like us will watch just about anything that even vaguely resembles Trek, but any film or TV project needs more than just us to succeed.
I can't claim to have any special knowledge about how to make an appealing film, but I figure studio execs and their bean-counters/marketing specialists probably have a few ways to ascertain how well a particular project will be received by the general public.

In all fairness, though, TNG had begun to wear out its welcome and needed to be retired. Even if the fifth film had been as well regarded as First Contact, it would have suffered at the box office from that fan fatigue.
 
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