Farscape or Babylon 5?

[kirk55555]

I guess telepaths are good against them. It was weird to see Lyta apparently crying blood after the attack, in most things like this the person usually gets a nosebleed.

Most battlecrabs are effectively just drone ships "piloted" by cybernetically modified humans like those seen in Ship of Tears, which is why they're vulnerable to telepaths and why the Shadows wanted telepaths.

It's worth noting that we've never really seen a ship piloted by an actual Shadow.

I phrased that wrong. I wasn't confused or thought using telepaths came out of nowhere (the episode with Bester and the frozen telepathswas just a few episodes a go) I was just mentioning that it turned out they were right about using telepaths, which I had already guessed would be the case.

But we didn't get ALL of the answers. We got a small glimpse of one part of a long series of events that take place over the rest of the series and beyond. Why can't you just accept what we are telling about there being more to all of this than you think? It's not like they sat down and talked in detail about every detail of what happened between the present day stuff and the future stuff. It's just a hint about what's to come, and doesn't give all of the details.
And you keep talking about stuff being spoiled, but it really can't be a spoiling anything if it is being done in the manner it was originally intended to be told.

Ok, this is the last comment about this I think I'll answer, for the sake of not clogging the thread anymore. We didn't get all the answers about every little thing Londo does, he could still do stuff that effects the war and other people in ways I can't guess. but, his personal story arc about himself, what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered. There is no mystery as to what happens in the end. sure, they don't tell us exactly how he gets there, but we know the destination, which means the questions that were a big part of his personal story have been answered, making his personal story pointless because you know what his big choice will be at the end, he stays an ally of the shadows and doesn't get redemption (atleast until the very end, where he saves Delenn and Sheapard and has G'Kar stop him from being a puppet anymore).

There is little point in belaboring this matter until you've seen more of the series, kirk. I suggest moving on and revisiting this later. Much later.

Yeah, I think you're right. like I said above, the conversation about Londo's personal story isn't going anywhere. We're not going to agree. There is much more stuff to talk about with B5. I'll still watch and enjoy Londo's stuff, regardless of wether his scenes involving his personal story arc have any point going forward.

 

[kirk55555]

Accidental double post

 

[sojourner]

Ok, this is the last comment about this I think I'll answer, for the sake of not clogging the thread anymore. We didn't get all the answers about every little thing Londo does, he could still do stuff that effects the war and other people in ways I can't guess. but, his personal story arc about himself, what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered. There is no mystery as to what happens in the end. sure, they don't tell us exactly how he gets there, but we know the destination, which means the questions that were a big part of his personal story have been answered, making his personal story pointless because you know what his big choice will be at the end, he stays an ally of the shadows and doesn't get redemption (atleast until the very end, where he saves Delenn and Sheapard and has G'Kar stop him from being a puppet anymore).

The simple answer to your supposition here: your wrong about what happens. Watch and see. Open your mind Grasshopper.

 

[hyzmarca]

The only question is how G'Kar got into his palace to kill him, but at this point I'll just assume he was Londo's slave. Either that, or he gained the ability to teleport. Why not? It fits the stupidity of these sections.

Seriously? I mean, you're completely overlooking the actual emotional context of that scene. I though that Andreas and Peter played that perfectly, making it clear that this was an act of a dear friend helping another.

They're both great actors (and my slave comment was mostly sarcastic) although I didn't really feel the friend thing. Unless G'Kar joins the shadows, I doubt he'd befriend a guiy who has helped the shadows so much. I could see Londo having G'Kar brought there to kill him because no one else would. That part doesn't really matter, anyway. I'm fine with that being their fate, its been hinted at enough anyway, the two mortal enemies killing each other.

Thankfully, And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place is next.

My hate for the future part is about the fact that the stuff that was more up in the air, like Londo changing his mind about the shadows sometime during the show, not over a decade after, that we now know the answers too.

Your assumption is wrong. Your assumption is completely wrong.

 

[Sindatur]

Grey 17 is Missing - More Franklin stuff. He's a bit annoying this episode. I kind of wish Ivanova had refused to leave him alone, and just beat the info out of him. He was going to withhold info that could be vital to the war with the shadows because he wanted his personal space. The Minbari warrior caste is back, and the guy shows they are still stupid. did he seriously believe the rangers would follow him? If pushed, they'd probably all just quit, make a new group with a different name, and follow Delenn anyway. Also, apparently the warrior is the Minbari version of batman, judging from his dissappearing act I figured Lennier would find a way to stop the warrior regardless of his promise, and Marcus was the best choice. The missing section in grey sector is interesting, and it definately had potential. Little did I know that Garibaldi would be captured by the B5 version of mole people. Not only that, but the lead mole man is easily the most annoying character thats been on the show so far. I could barely decipher his gibberish most of the time, and he just wouldn't shut up. I was hoping Garibaldi would get his gun back and shoot him, but I guess getting rough with him was better than nothing. The Marcus/warrior fight was cool, even though Marcus got beat pretty badly. The monster in B5 looked cool, although I wish Garibaldi had managed to feed the annoying mole man to him. I'm not sure if the homemade guy thing actually makes sense, but it was interesting. Overall, this was an ok episode, and Delenn's stuff was decent, but the Grey 17 parts were not great. I think it had a lot of potential, and I was interested in those parts, but the end result didn't live up to what I thought it would be. It ended up being mostly annoying because of the mole man who wouldn't stop saying stupid stuff. He was beyond irritating.

Yea, Grey 17 is Missing gets unfairly put on many bottom 3 or 5 episode lists. The Garibaldi stuff in Section Grey17 didn't come off successfully and is pretty bad, (especially measuring against the rest of B5), but, the Minbari stuff with Neroon (Our Moderator's Namesake), Marcus, Delenn and Lennier is great, and is important to the arc, such as establishing Delenn as Sinclair's replacement as En'til'zha.

If the episode was named for the Minbari stuff, I think it would go higher on alot of people's list. As it is, people think of the episode and the first thing that comes to mind is Jeremiah and the Zarg and the homemade cannon, and it gets thrown to the bottom of the dumpster with little more thought

 

[kirk55555]

I didn't think the whole episode was that bad, but the Grey 17 stuff seemed like it could've be interesting. A whole missing/sealed off section? They could have done some cool stuff with that idea. Instead, it was just really, really annoying. The delenn stuff was interesting, and important, I just wish they had gone a different route with the Grey 17 stuff.

 

[Sindatur]

I didn't think the whole episode was that bad, but the Grey 17 stuff seemed like it could've be interesting. A whole missing/sealed off section? They could have done some cool stuff with that idea. Instead, it was just really, really annoying. The delenn stuff was interesting, and important, I just wish they had gone a different route with the Grey 17 stuff.

And Robert Englund too, who woulda thought it would turn out missing the mark by so much.

 

[Snatcher42]

The problem with the Londo stuff is that it's hard for us to respond without getting into spoilers. Kirk, I'm gonna reply one more time, not to be argumentative or anything, but just in that hope that you'll be able to enjoy this great arc of the show. If not, well, again lets just revisit it later on.

what will happen to him specifically (who he'll ally with, wether he will redeem himself or die a tool of the shadows) has been definitive answered.

Hmm, see, it really hasn't. You only think it has. I'm gonna put the next part in a spoiler tag. It's not super specific or anything, but you may still want to hold off on it. Your choice.

Spoiler: Londo

You're assuming the shadows (or whoever they are) are on Centauri Prime because Londo is their ally. But couldn't there be other explanations for what you saw? Londo's actions may not make sense in any other context yet, but you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle. If you have time, go back and re-watch these scenes. The hints are there.

And that's the last thing I'll say about it for now.

 

[Booji]

The Marcus/Neroon/Delenn story is definitely my favorite part of 'Grey 17'. The rest is meh. Neroon is another cool character. Always dug when he popped up in an episode. Another character with a good arc.

 

[sojourner]

Spoiler: Londo

You're assuming the shadows (or whoever they are) are on Centauri Prime because Londo is their ally. But couldn't there be other explanations for what you saw? Londo's actions may not make sense in any other context yet, but you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle. If you have time, go back and re-watch these scenes. The hints are there.

And that's the last thing I'll say about it for now.

Yeah, that's definitely too spoilery for Kirk55555's taste. I recommend that he not read it. Just suffice it to say that what he thinks he knows is wrong.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Spoiler: "Londo"

You're assuming the shadows (or whoever they are) are on Centauri Prime because Londo is their ally. But couldn't there be other explanations for what you saw? Londo's actions may not make sense in any other context yet, but you're missing a few pieces of the puzzle. If you have time, go back and re-watch these scenes. The hints are there.

And that's the last thing I'll say about it for now.

Yeah, that's definitely too spoilery for Kirk55555's taste. I recommend that he not read it. Just suffice it to say that what he thinks he knows is wrong.

No one is what they seem on B5.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

They're both ace, but Babylon 5 for me, I just love it so much!

Ah, the '90s. The golden age of genre TV.

 

[JD]

This thread inspired to start a rewatch, in chronological order this time. I started with In The Beginning, which I loved. I kind of forgot just how good the show was when it was good.

 

[Lindley]

A mindset which thinks an episode can be judged on a two-sentence summary, and then rejects all additional data which suggests this might not be sufficient, might have trouble with the notion of not getting answers until an entirely different season.

Wow, Farscape will apparently never stop haunting me

Just trying to make a point. You have a tendency to cling with absolutely certainty to your preconceptions even when told they are wrong. Try to let the story unfold as it will.

 

[Aeon]

Just trying to make a point. You have a tendency to cling with absolutely certainty to your preconceptions even when told they are wrong. Try to let the story unfold as it will.

Indeed.

 

[Reverend]

Just trying to make a point. You have a tendency to cling with absolutely certainty to your preconceptions even when told they are wrong. Try to let the story unfold as it will.

Indeed.

You'd think the fact that *everyone* in this thread is telling him exactly the same thing would at least make him stop and think, no?

Yeah, anyway, Grey 17 is pretty well known as one of the worst episodes of the whole series (of which there are few and it isn't even *that* bad) to the point where even JMS all but disowns it.

The Marcus/Neroon stuff is good, but for various reasons the whole Garibaldi side of the story just didn't come together at the writing stage and the poor execution of the creature just made it worse.

 

[kirk55555]

And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place - This was a good episode, and Londo was great in it, as always. Londo was harsh with Vir, but I liked how his plan worked out in the end. It was nice to hear that there is a resistance on earth to the president (who is actually more of a dictator at this point), and that not all humans on earth are idiots. Delenn got a bit annoying at the end, when she freaked out when Sheridan said he was thinking like the enemy. Trying to figure out what your enemy is going to do (aka thinking like the enemy) seems like a pretty important thing to do. But, I guess just randomly reacting to the enemy beats trying to figure out what they're doing and stop them before they do it I'm glad Londo saved Vir. I figured that his plan was not what he said it was. It was interesting seeing G'Kar on the narn homeworld, and the ending was weird, but it was an interesting scene. The music made it different, but it was a good scene. I'm glad that Londo didn't actually turn in G'Kar. Not that it would have mattered, since G'Kar obviously isn't going to die anytime soon. The fleet of white stars was cool. Anyway, this was a good episode, with Londo's stuff being especially good, and since it didn't involve any decisions regarding the shadows it wasn't even ruined by the fact that I know what happens to him (although I did know that G'kar and Vir would be fine, but I probably would have guessed that anyway). Also, I'm just stating what I think, when I talk about Londo stuff from now on don't be surprised if there is references to how much or little its involved/ruined by the idiotic spoiler. That said, I'm still not going to talk about the spoiler more than I already have out of context to specific episodes.

 

[Booji]

and the ending was weird, but it was an interesting scene. The music made it different, but it was a good scene.

this is my 2nd favorite scene in the series. i absolutely love the gospel song being played and it accompanies the Refa beat down real well.

the whole episode is really done well. one of my top 5.

this ep also sets a major arc in motion.

 

[Rye]

I've never seen Babylon 5, so I cannot speak for its quality. What I can tell you, is Farscape is by far the greatest sci-fi show I've watched in my life. It doesn't have the franchise or geek appeal as Star Trek, but it is an emotional rollercoaster through the lives of an unlikely crew. You very clearly watch all the characters develop, and see through the eyes of John as he loses his mind during their adventures. It can be a bit over-the-top at times, but it more then makes up for it with excellent acting, and writing.

I cannot tell you if Babylon 5 is good or not, but I can tell you that if you watch Farscape, you won't be disappointed. Farscape is also on Netflix instant-view, if you have a computer or TV capable of streaming it. It will probably be higher quality then a DVD, as well. They may not have season 4 (About two years ago when I watched it), but seasons 1-3 I know are on there.

EDIT: Oh wow, I did not know how long and old this thread was, so I was responding to the original post. My bad xD.

 

[JD]

Farscape is not streaming on Netflix any more. I searched for it last week and all I got was discs.