Farscape or Babylon 5?
- Thread starter kirk55555
- Start date
Warning: I usually have spoilers in my posts and don't mention it (since it is a topic basically about me watching B5 now) but just incase, there are big spoilers about the end of Season 2, so be warned.
Comes the Inquisitor - This was an ok episode, but not great. I get the idea behind it, and they did it decently, I just didn't like the idea of torturing Delenn and then Sheridan to prove that they are "worthy". Well, whose to say that Kosh is worthy? Maybe he's not the right person. I don't care if his race is ancient, that doesn't mean he's automatically better than anyone else. I'd like to see him get tortured for awhile (although I'm not sure he could even be tortured). Actually, the Inquisitor's scenes with Delenn reminded me of a much better episode of a sci Fi series where a main character is tortured (even if the situation is completely different). I kept hoping the sequence would evenutally turn into:
Sebastian: Who are you?
Delenn: THERE ARE...FOUR LIGHTS!
The Inquisitor was ok, I guess. He did the part well, I just wasn't too excited about the part. The reveal that he was Jack the Ripper was interesting (although I prefer Jack to be a non-corporeal being that feeds on the fear and pain caused by his murders
). The fact that the Vorlons use him just makes them seem like bigger asses (lets find a serial killer to test the worthiness of people 
). The scene with G'Kar and Vir in this episode was good. The episode ended in a very cliched fasion (it was their willingness to die for people that made them worthy, which is the reason 95% of people in Sci Fi seemed to be deemed worthy in situations like this), like I had guessed it was. This was an ok episode, although weaker than I'd expect from an episode right before the end.
The Fall of Night - The Vir/Lennier scene was entertaining, with both of them complaining about how they are always the last to know anything. The centauri continue to cause trouble. The Night Watch reappears, and confirms my suspicion that its an evil orginazation (when have anyone wearing that type of armband been good guys?). Arresting people for speaking against the president/his decisions should be obviously evil and against the law even in the B5 universe, but I guess at this point nothing EarthGov does is that surprising. The peace guy really ticked me off, as did the always idiotic EarthGov. A non-agression treaty? EarthGov is officially the worst (not expressly evil) government I've seen in a sci Fi TV show. The peace guy was just annoying, thinking that bowing to the Centauri was going to cause anything but problems in the long run. Between that and the fact thaty half of B5's crew seem to be disloyal scum willing to turn people in/betray Sheridan with little reason, I was getting rather annoyed at this episode. The peace guy seriously needed to get kicked out an airlock. I'm glad Sheridan basically said screw you to the upcoming treaty and defended the Narn. It was a cool fight (B5 got pretty beat up, but still won). The bomb scene was kind of predictable, but Kosh's reveal was not. It was cool seeing him leave his encounter suit to save Sheridan. I hadn't guessed that Sheridan was weightless., but then again I hadn't figured out that the rotating sphere section is apparently an outdoor area or something (I guess it spins for artificial gravity?). The fact that everyone saw something different explains the earlier comments about Kosh (Londo apparently not seeing anything was very interesting). It looks like that fighter pilot found his answers, although he died in the process and now his pics will probably make the shadows attack sooner than even Kosh's reveal would have. Ivanova's vopice over at the end was great. Overall, I liked this episode. Even with an EarthGov plot that made me want to throw something at the TV at times, it had cool moments, and really made me excited for season 3 (which I should be arriving in a week or two from Amazon.com).
Comes the Inquisitor - This was an ok episode, but not great. I get the idea behind it, and they did it decently, I just didn't like the idea of torturing Delenn and then Sheridan to prove that they are "worthy". Well, whose to say that Kosh is worthy? Maybe he's not the right person. I don't care if his race is ancient, that doesn't mean he's automatically better than anyone else. I'd like to see him get tortured for awhile (although I'm not sure he could even be tortured). Actually, the Inquisitor's scenes with Delenn reminded me of a much better episode of a sci Fi series where a main character is tortured (even if the situation is completely different). I kept hoping the sequence would evenutally turn into:
Sebastian: Who are you?
Delenn: THERE ARE...FOUR LIGHTS!
The Inquisitor was ok, I guess. He did the part well, I just wasn't too excited about the part. The reveal that he was Jack the Ripper was interesting (although I prefer Jack to be a non-corporeal being that feeds on the fear and pain caused by his murders
). The fact that the Vorlons use him just makes them seem like bigger asses (lets find a serial killer to test the worthiness of people ). The scene with G'Kar and Vir in this episode was good. The episode ended in a very cliched fasion (it was their willingness to die for people that made them worthy, which is the reason 95% of people in Sci Fi seemed to be deemed worthy in situations like this), like I had guessed it was. This was an ok episode, although weaker than I'd expect from an episode right before the end.The Fall of Night - The Vir/Lennier scene was entertaining, with both of them complaining about how they are always the last to know anything. The centauri continue to cause trouble. The Night Watch reappears, and confirms my suspicion that its an evil orginazation (when have anyone wearing that type of armband been good guys?). Arresting people for speaking against the president/his decisions should be obviously evil and against the law even in the B5 universe, but I guess at this point nothing EarthGov does is that surprising. The peace guy really ticked me off, as did the always idiotic EarthGov. A non-agression treaty? EarthGov is officially the worst (not expressly evil) government I've seen in a sci Fi TV show. The peace guy was just annoying, thinking that bowing to the Centauri was going to cause anything but problems in the long run. Between that and the fact thaty half of B5's crew seem to be disloyal scum willing to turn people in/betray Sheridan with little reason, I was getting rather annoyed at this episode. The peace guy seriously needed to get kicked out an airlock. I'm glad Sheridan basically said screw you to the upcoming treaty and defended the Narn. It was a cool fight (B5 got pretty beat up, but still won). The bomb scene was kind of predictable, but Kosh's reveal was not. It was cool seeing him leave his encounter suit to save Sheridan. I hadn't guessed that Sheridan was weightless., but then again I hadn't figured out that the rotating sphere section is apparently an outdoor area or something (I guess it spins for artificial gravity?). The fact that everyone saw something different explains the earlier comments about Kosh (Londo apparently not seeing anything was very interesting). It looks like that fighter pilot found his answers, although he died in the process and now his pics will probably make the shadows attack sooner than even Kosh's reveal would have. Ivanova's vopice over at the end was great. Overall, I liked this episode. Even with an EarthGov plot that made me want to throw something at the TV at times, it had cool moments, and really made me excited for season 3 (which I should be arriving in a week or two from Amazon.com).
I love both but I only have Farscape on DVD right now but I do plan on getting B5 sometime it's on my main amazon wish list Farscape you only have to get 2 things Farscape the complete series & The Peacekeeper Wars they were released separately not together lion's gate released PK Wars
It wasn't just their their willingness to die for each other. It was their willingness to die "in the dark." Anyone can throw their life away for fame and glory. The Vorlons don't want glory hounds, it's as simple as that.
Alone in the Dark, even, with no one ever knowing
^ Yeah, it was specifically about the willingness to die "alone and forgotten." A bit different than dying on the battlefield to save your team or something like that, which would be remembered.
The Sebastian character is intended to be the counterpoint to Morden. Look at who the Shadows use versus who the Vorlons use.
Yeah, that shuttle is in the outdoor area where places like the Garden and Fresh Aire restaurant open up to. The humans don't have the artificial gravity capabilities of some of the other races at this point, so they have to spin the station for it.
Have to say, I love Comes the Inquisitor - Wayne Alexander is just glorious in that role. As mentioned above, it's not just about the 'laying down your lives' thing, it's that you're willing to do it for the right reasons.
Re the Vorlons - well, we've had a pretty solitary view of the Vorlons up until now, Kosh. Makes you wonder just how representative he is of the Vorlons en masse......
The Fall of Night is a fantastic finale - my favourite bit is probably Sheridan's 'apology' after blasting the Centauri warship. "It's the thought that counts".......
Re the Vorlons - well, we've had a pretty solitary view of the Vorlons up until now, Kosh. Makes you wonder just how representative he is of the Vorlons en masse......
The Fall of Night is a fantastic finale - my favourite bit is probably Sheridan's 'apology' after blasting the Centauri warship. "It's the thought that counts".......
RE: EarthGov/Nightwatch - In case you haven't spotted it already, just about everything regarding these plotlines have some real and very memorable historical parallels. The EA diplomat even quotes Neville Chamberlain (unintentionally one would hope!) There is sound reasoning behind this too since it's pretty clear the Centauri are only really interested in going after the minor League Worlds along their borders. Earth Dome knows just as well as the Centaurum that they've already taken down one of the "big five" governments and going after Earth at this point would just be too costly. There's more to it of course and it should be clear pretty soon how and why EarthGov are so sure of the Centauri's intentions.
The whole thing about reporting sedition, people being locked up for speaking their minds and the like...well, ever hear of Nazi Germany? Or the Soviet Union? How about a certain U.S. Senator of Wisconsin by the name of Joseph McCarthy? That sort of thing may be been illegal under Santiago, but the thing about laws is that they're made and indeed unmade by governments. It should be pretty clear by now that EarthGov is promoting a climate of fear and intolerance, mostly aimed at the other races. There's a fair basis for this since it was just a decade or so ago that the Minbari nearly wiped humanity off the face of the galaxy...and it wasn't exactly as if the humans won either. They just stopped short of a killing blow. We can only imagine the kind of psychological damage that can inflict on a populous and Clark is taking full advantage of it to solidify his power base.
The whole thing about reporting sedition, people being locked up for speaking their minds and the like...well, ever hear of Nazi Germany? Or the Soviet Union? How about a certain U.S. Senator of Wisconsin by the name of Joseph McCarthy? That sort of thing may be been illegal under Santiago, but the thing about laws is that they're made and indeed unmade by governments. It should be pretty clear by now that EarthGov is promoting a climate of fear and intolerance, mostly aimed at the other races. There's a fair basis for this since it was just a decade or so ago that the Minbari nearly wiped humanity off the face of the galaxy...and it wasn't exactly as if the humans won either. They just stopped short of a killing blow. We can only imagine the kind of psychological damage that can inflict on a populous and Clark is taking full advantage of it to solidify his power base.
I get the historical parallels, I just don't get how the people in the show don't. Its a few hundred years in the future, but you'd still think that people would notice whats going on and protest. There seem to be absolutely no checks and balances to the power of the corrupt in EarthGov. At this point, if it goes any farther, EarthGov will start making the Alliance from Firefly or the Empire from Star Wars look like superior governments.
To be clear, my annoyance with EarthGov isn't effecting my enjoyment of the show. Its just a bit annoying to learn that, in B5, humans are actually worst in general then they are nowadays. I hope the EarthGov stuff doesn't become too muddled in reliving the past. I get it, JMS read a history textbook once. Either tone it down, or go full facist/dictatorship (which would atleast be something different). Still, the mediocre EarthGov stuff in no way messes with the rest of the show, which more than compensates for having to deal with an annoying EarthGov related character or plotline every so often. Also, I can see the earthGov stuff eventually going somewhere interesting, its just not there yet.
To be clear, my annoyance with EarthGov isn't effecting my enjoyment of the show. Its just a bit annoying to learn that, in B5, humans are actually worst in general then they are nowadays. I hope the EarthGov stuff doesn't become too muddled in reliving the past. I get it, JMS read a history textbook once. Either tone it down, or go full facist/dictatorship (which would atleast be something different). Still, the mediocre EarthGov stuff in no way messes with the rest of the show, which more than compensates for having to deal with an annoying EarthGov related character or plotline every so often. Also, I can see the earthGov stuff eventually going somewhere interesting, its just not there yet.
Yeah I can't answer much of this without getting into spoilers, so I'll try to keep to generalities.
First off the idea that a society shouldn't or couldn't repeat the mistakes of the past rather flies in the face of the evidence. The examples I cited are just *some* of the most notable examples of the last century. We've been repeating the same stupid patterns for all of recorded history...and probably a while before that too. In short, it's not that humanity is "worse" than it is today, it's that it's just the same as it's been since we climbed down out of the trees and invented boredom.
As for the inner workings of EarthGov, it's probably worth keeping in mind that most of what Clark is doing is actually quite popular back on Earth. Even now, most of the human race still lives on Earth and most of them (around 10 billion) have never been into space, or seen an alien outside of the vids. Most people's opinions are going to be coloured by past experience. For example: First Contact was with the Centauri who swaggered into Earth orbit making themselves out the be the grand high overlords of the universe...an image that was quickly dispelled as soon as the Narns were encountered. The only other race to have significant interactions with Earth was the Minbari...who tried to kill everyone...and were very good at it. Needless to say neither races exactly engendered much in the way of trust and good will. Something a character says later on in the show sums up the attitude of most humans fairly succinctly: "Aliens fighting aliens? Doesn't really concern us now does it...?"
Human colonists are rather looked down on by the general Earth populous; Mars born in particular are considered ungrateful upstarts. Even more so recently since the colony declared neutrality during the Minbari War. The result was an EA military governorship, trade sanctions, food riots (which Sheridan helped put down) and of course the open rebellion at the end of season 1. With all that it shouldn't be at all surprising that most humans are more concerned with domestic issues than foreign policy.
Kirk, when you start watching season 3, take note of the first shot of the new opening credits. That's all I can say for now! The season gets off to a bit of a slow start, but quickly picks up and is one hell of a ride. Most fans agree, the next two seasons are B5's zenith.
Matters of Honor - The new opening was interesting, with Ivanova's narration instead of Sheridan's. I'm guessing that they changed the MedLab set, based off the dialog. Also, Garibaldi has a new haircut, which actually took me a few scenes to notice. Londo breaking ties with Morden was interesting, although it seems like he's just moved on and started working with another centauri (unless I misinterpreted what was said). The first thing I thought when the intelligence agent was there and they gave talked about giving him a room, was wether EarthGov made agents pay rent. Delenn not identifying the ship without lying was a pretty simple dodge, good thing the agent didn't ask and harder questions to her. Londo's dream was interesting. The fight with Marcus, Delenn and Lennier was done well, although thye extendable pole looked goofy when it first appeared. The Rangers are less of a secret, atleast to non hyuman governments, then I thought. The White Star looks cool. This episode made me wonder something. Does B5 have translation devices? I don't see every human and alien who comes into contact with each other to have to learn the languages of every alien, in fact that actually makes no sense. On B5, there has never been a point where they don't understand each other. Sheridan can talk to any alien, and any alien, even the ones who aren't ambassadors or super important, can talk to everyone else. I doubt every alien on the station not only learned english, but also the language of every other alien species. Now, there may be just one language used by everyone (either English or something else) but that still requires everyone to learn a language, and I just don't see it happening. G'Kar's story about the Shadows was interesting. The fight with the Ehite star and the shadows was cool, especially the end. I didn't know big ships couldn't make jump points (the narn cruisers from a few episodes ago looked pretty big, and they could make jump points, but I guess they weren't as big as I thought). Seeing earthGov and PsiCorps working with Morden was interesting, but I kind of expected it at this point. Overall, I liked this episode. It was a good beginning to the season.
Convictions - The beginning was kind of weird, atleast when it comes to Lennier's behavior. Lennier was annoyed by a guy, so he lied to him. Then, Lennier was caught in an explosion, so I guess I know now why Minbari don't lie
What was the justification for the lie? He obviously didn't have anything that was "transferable by physical contact", but I'm assuming that he worded the lie in some way I missed so that it wasn't a lie. I like how Londo can be an ass, but he's still not a bad guy. His scenes with Lennier in MedLab were very good. G'Kar and Londo trapped in the elevator were great scenes, although it makes me wonder, again, why there is no personnel communication devices for people besides station personnel. You'd thing atleast ambassadors would be able to get soimething lkike the link the B5 staff has, in case of emergencies. And its not like stuff like this hasn't come up before. G'Kar's reaction to the situation was really entertaining. The bomber was played a bit too cartoony (I don't know if it was the actor's fault or the writing) but it didn't ruin the story, I just wish he'd seemed a bit more like a person that would actually exist. The end scene in the elevator was good. Overall, I enjoyed this episode.
Convictions - The beginning was kind of weird, atleast when it comes to Lennier's behavior. Lennier was annoyed by a guy, so he lied to him. Then, Lennier was caught in an explosion, so I guess I know now why Minbari don't lie
What was the justification for the lie? He obviously didn't have anything that was "transferable by physical contact", but I'm assuming that he worded the lie in some way I missed so that it wasn't a lie. I like how Londo can be an ass, but he's still not a bad guy. His scenes with Lennier in MedLab were very good. G'Kar and Londo trapped in the elevator were great scenes, although it makes me wonder, again, why there is no personnel communication devices for people besides station personnel. You'd thing atleast ambassadors would be able to get soimething lkike the link the B5 staff has, in case of emergencies. And its not like stuff like this hasn't come up before. G'Kar's reaction to the situation was really entertaining. The bomber was played a bit too cartoony (I don't know if it was the actor's fault or the writing) but it didn't ruin the story, I just wish he'd seemed a bit more like a person that would actually exist. The end scene in the elevator was good. Overall, I enjoyed this episode.
You've got that backwards. Small ships usually can't make jump points. Opening a jump point requires a lot of power, which generally requires a huge reactor. The Vorlons have compact power sources that let small ships open jump points, but none of the young races do, at least until now.
The show was written before cell phones became ubiquitous. Earthforce communicators are fancy walkies talkies and serve the same purpose. It's one of those things that seems dated because it is.
Yep, Morden mentioned Refa, who was seen a few times last season. He was the other guy when the Emperor died who said being damned was a small price to pay for immortality.
There are three main languages: English, Centauri, and Interlac. The aliens that have to use translation devices are shown using them - like the pak'ma'ra.
Additionally, it's worth bearing in mind that B5 is a trading hub in neutral territory, so the majority of visitors are going to be merchants and the like. As such it stands to reason that it'd be good business to be at least passably fluent in the major trading languages.
It should also be noted that while their are translators--as seen being used by the pak'ma'ra, Gaim, Vorlons, whatever race N'grath was and I think the Llort too--they're not *universal* translators like in Trek. They need to be pre-programmed for specific language translations. This actually becomes a recurring plot point of Crusade, the short lived sequel series as they have to have a xeno-linguistic specialist aboard to figure out every new alien-of-the-week language they come across.
As for Interlac while it's never spoken by any character on screen, if you listen carefully you can actually hear it over the PA announcements in the customs area. As the name implies, Interlac is an artificial language devised specifically for inter-species communication and as such is meant to be fairly simple to translate. I'm not sure if JMS ever said who came up with it, but the Centauri are the most likely candidates. They're one of the older of the younger races and have a long history of trade...usually as a means of imperialist expansion...so pretty much how English became so wide spread on Earth.
I've always assumed that it was simply because all the heavy metal bulkheads make long-range radio communication impractical. I mean every compartment would essentially be a Faraday cage, no? One assumes that the personal links work off a network of internal communications nodes so anyone with a link is always within range. There may also be some security reason (like bandwidth crowding?) for forcing non-station personnel to rely on fixed terminals. It may also be partly economic as people placing a call need to use their credit chit to pay for it.
Later on in the show we do actually see non-EF personnel using wireless communicators on the station (called "hand-mikes" I think) but IIRC they're all downbelow criminal types so maybe it uses a pirate channel of some kind?
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A Day in the Strife - The Narn rep is annoying. That said, Londo's talk with him was pretty dark for Londo. It sucks that Vir left. He's one of the few centauri on the show who is actually a nice, decent guy. Londo is awesome (he's probably my favorite character on B5), and I think he's a good guy when you get right down to it, but he can be an ass, and super arrogant. Vir was a good match for Londo, kind of reminding Londo of his conscience sometimes (wether Londo wanted to be reminded or not). The doctor and his stim problem isn't surprising (although I'm not sure if it will become a big think, its not even brought up in the next episode). Although, his big burst of anger (supposedly from the stims) seemed pretty justified, with the earth doctors not wanting to get vital information from a guy because he was on vacation, risking 250,000 lives so that the guy can relax uninterrupted 
. From what I saw, I'm assuming that the Narn guard Ta'Lon is the guy Sheridan met when he was captured. It was iinteresting that he showed up again. The Narn rep is obviously a puppet for the centauri, trying to get G'Kar to return with threats. I like how the Narn got G'Kar to stay. The probe was interesting. I wonder if the race that made it will ever be revealed. Overall, this was a good episode.
Passing Through Gethseman - Coming into this episode, the summary made me think that it would just be ok. It turned out to be a great episode. Lyta's obsession with the vorlons is making her sound like a stalker The monks are interesting. I'm glad that they've more appearances than just the episode where they were introduced. I liked Garibaldi's response to Delenn over the whole eye for an eye thing.
Garibaldi: I'm an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth kind of guy.
Delenn: So, you want everyone to be eyeless and toothless?
Garibaldi: Not everyone, only the bad guys.
Its probably the best response to the anti-eye for an eye argument that I've heard. The whole story of the monk who had previously been a killer was great. The death of personality thing has been brought up before, and this was an interesting look into it. His flashbacks were done well, and the actor did a great job in the role. I liked that some of the thingshe was seeing weren't actually delusions, people were actually writing stuff on the walls and playing sounds to mess with him. That was an interesting twist on how stuff like this is usually done. The ending was really good (although having Edward's murderer join the monks is a bit much). I really enjoyed this episode. It may not have had too much to do with the overall plot, but it was very good.
. From what I saw, I'm assuming that the Narn guard Ta'Lon is the guy Sheridan met when he was captured. It was iinteresting that he showed up again. The Narn rep is obviously a puppet for the centauri, trying to get G'Kar to return with threats. I like how the Narn got G'Kar to stay. The probe was interesting. I wonder if the race that made it will ever be revealed. Overall, this was a good episode.Passing Through Gethseman - Coming into this episode, the summary made me think that it would just be ok. It turned out to be a great episode. Lyta's obsession with the vorlons is making her sound like a stalker
The monks are interesting. I'm glad that they've more appearances than just the episode where they were introduced. I liked Garibaldi's response to Delenn over the whole eye for an eye thing.Garibaldi: I'm an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth kind of guy.
Delenn: So, you want everyone to be eyeless and toothless?
Garibaldi: Not everyone, only the bad guys.
Its probably the best response to the anti-eye for an eye argument that I've heard. The whole story of the monk who had previously been a killer was great. The death of personality thing has been brought up before, and this was an interesting look into it. His flashbacks were done well, and the actor did a great job in the role. I liked that some of the thingshe was seeing weren't actually delusions, people were actually writing stuff on the walls and playing sounds to mess with him. That was an interesting twist on how stuff like this is usually done. The ending was really good (although having Edward's murderer join the monks is a bit much). I really enjoyed this episode. It may not have had too much to do with the overall plot, but it was very good.
I don't think it'd be much of a spoiler to let you know Vir will be back. IIRC Stephen Furst had some other regular gig at the time so couldn't appear in as many episodes, so his character was "put on a bus."
Franklin's outburst was exceptional since, while yes, he was under extraordinary pressure, he's also a trained surgeon. Much like pilots, people in that profession aren't normally prone to being easily rattled, *especially* not in high stress situations. So it was indeed the stims and the exhaustion that pushed him over the edge.
What I liked about how the Narn rep was portrayed, is that he wasn't just some two faced snake out to protect himself by collaborating with the Centauri. He genuinely thought that what he was doing was for the benefit of his people (at least in the short term) and he was clearly having to swallow his pride just being in the same room as Londo.
Franklin's outburst was exceptional since, while yes, he was under extraordinary pressure, he's also a trained surgeon. Much like pilots, people in that profession aren't normally prone to being easily rattled, *especially* not in high stress situations. So it was indeed the stims and the exhaustion that pushed him over the edge.
What I liked about how the Narn rep was portrayed, is that he wasn't just some two faced snake out to protect himself by collaborating with the Centauri. He genuinely thought that what he was doing was for the benefit of his people (at least in the short term) and he was clearly having to swallow his pride just being in the same room as Londo.
Really? I rather thought Delenn's expression at that said very loudly "and I suppose you get to point out who the bad guys are?" She was just too polite to say it.
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