Farscape or Babylon 5?
- Thread starter kirk55555
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The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father - This was a cool concept for an episode, following Bester and the Psi Cops as they try to stop a crazy telepathic murderer. All the signs in Psi Corps reminded me of the signs from They Live, just without needing glasses to see them. Seeing Bester at the Psi Corps HQ and interacting with other Corps telepaths was interesting, as was the Psi Corps having at least one (and possibly more) large spaceship that hides in hyperspace. The murderer was creepy. I understand how he could kill with his mind, but stealing skills was an ability I didn't expect. The fact that he has mulitple personalities, with one being crazy and stronger than the other, was a cool concept. Having the rookie just casually kill a normal human did a good job of enforcing the fact that this is a pretty evil group just out for themselves, and that Bester isn't that unique when it comes to his attitude. This was a very good episode, with a cool concept. Koenig was amazing as Bester, like he usually is. At this point, I think he's gotten more screen time and lines in B5 than he did in Star Trek and the ST movies combined 
It's generally held that Jack Bauer is the fastest driver in the world. Realistically, there's no way in hell that he wouldn't spend half the season just sitting around in traffic. Yet somehow he can get from one side of LA to the other in minutes.
That reminds me of something, did we ever see Jack taking a potty break?
That was what Keifer Sutherland suggested in interviews... So he thought about it, at least!
Koenig was amazing as Bester, like he usually is. At this point, I think he's gotten more screen time and lines in B5 than he did in Star Trek and the ST movies combined
I had no idea Walter Koenig was such a good actor. JMS gave him some great dialog and Walter stole every scene he was in. Bester is right there with Darth Vader for all time great villains.
Meditations on the Abyss - Delenn is pretty good at breaking fingers. Vir hasn't been around for awhile, it was nice to see him again. The fast food stuff was funny, as was how Londo reacted to the Drazi bug. Vir losing his mind was hilarious. He just destroyed that fruit stand. G'Kar finally got his new eye. Minbari fighters look interesting. I'm guessing that the pilots fly while laying down, atleast thats what it looked like. I figured the lack of air was a test, it seems like something the Rangers would do. G'Kar's talk about his book was interesting, although I don't know if his followers understood what he meant about the light. Having a coffee stain be a permenant part of the book was funny. Overall, this was a very good episode.
Darkness Ascending - Garibaldi's dream was interesting, although now I'm wondering if creepy white eyed Lyta might have actually been real
Lyta and G'Kar's deal is interesting, although the "Pleasure Threshold" thing was really creepy 
I'm glad Delenn got the better of Sheridan during their fight. She was right to send Lennier out to get evidence. Garibaldi was a bit of an ass this episode, and is obviously out of control with the drinking, but you'd think his girlfriend (assuming she believed him) could have atleast not had a glass of wine at dinner on the same day they just had a fight about drinking. I know she doesn't have a problem, and he was sneaking drinks anyway, but she didn't know that so she probably shouldn't have been drinking right in front of him, it seems only fair, atleast in that situation. Garibaldi's drinking keeps causing problems, I'm sure its building to him making a big mistake. Lennier's fighter must be very stealthy to be able to attach to a ship and steal air without being detected. I guess the Centauri don't have sensors on the hulls of their ships. This Centauri situation is going to go badly. I'm betting that Londo is 3-4 episodes away at most from becoming puppet Londo. I was really hoping that would happen off screen, after season 5, but it looks like it won't. I'll probably have to watch atleast an episode or two with my favorite character just being a puppet. Thats going to suck, but besides that I'm interested in seeing what happens next. this was a good episode.
Darkness Ascending - Garibaldi's dream was interesting, although now I'm wondering if creepy white eyed Lyta might have actually been real
Lyta and G'Kar's deal is interesting, although the "Pleasure Threshold" thing was really creepy I'm glad Delenn got the better of Sheridan during their fight. She was right to send Lennier out to get evidence. Garibaldi was a bit of an ass this episode, and is obviously out of control with the drinking, but you'd think his girlfriend (assuming she believed him) could have atleast not had a glass of wine at dinner on the same day they just had a fight about drinking. I know she doesn't have a problem, and he was sneaking drinks anyway, but she didn't know that so she probably shouldn't have been drinking right in front of him, it seems only fair, atleast in that situation. Garibaldi's drinking keeps causing problems, I'm sure its building to him making a big mistake. Lennier's fighter must be very stealthy to be able to attach to a ship and steal air without being detected. I guess the Centauri don't have sensors on the hulls of their ships. This Centauri situation is going to go badly. I'm betting that Londo is 3-4 episodes away at most from becoming puppet Londo. I was really hoping that would happen off screen, after season 5, but it looks like it won't. I'll probably have to watch atleast an episode or two with my favorite character just being a puppet. Thats going to suck, but besides that I'm interested in seeing what happens next. this was a good episode.
A nice callback to the pilot where G'Kar tries to buy Lyta's services to acquire the telepathic gene for the Narns.Lyta and G'Kar's deal is interesting, although the "Pleasure Threshold" thing was really creepy
"Would you prefer to be conscious or unconscious during the mating? I would prefer conscious, but I don't know what your... pleasure threshold is."
^ I believe Kirk did not see The Gathering?
The build-up and pay-off of that storyline is some of the most powerful stuff in the show.
Nope, I didn't get to see it. I had assumed it was a call back to it, though.
Now, on to the episodes I watched.
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder - Londo's reaction to the evidence against the Centauri was interesting. The Centauri explination for what was happenening was stupid, even if I didn't already know they were definately responsible. I liked seeing G'Kar and Londo go to Centauri Prime, and g'Kar had some funny banter with the Centauri, as always. I knew Garibaldi would screw up, but its weird no one besides his girlfriend and Zach have figured out whats wrong with him. How many times can he make lame excuses and get away with it? Sheridan losing it with the ambassadors was great, they deserved his anger. It was cool to see Londo stand up for G'Kar, even if it meant being put in the same cell as him. Overall, this was a good episode.
Movements of Fire and Shadow - The whole of B5 is filled with killers and security officer's who aren't great at their job. I know its a big station, but if it hadn't been for the end of the war next episode, every Centauri on B5 would probably have ended up dead before too long. A new Earth/Minbari ship sounds interesting. I figured that they must start running low on White Star's eventually. G'kar's plan to get Londo out of the cell was clever and funny. Lyta showed she can be pretty vicious when she wants to be. The pods that were controlling some Centauri ships were interesting. The drazi/Narn attack was pretty bad. I know that the Centauri have done stuff like that, but I thought that they might atleat pretend they weren't as bad as the Centauri. Overall, this was a pretty good episode.
The Fall of Centauri Prime - I'm just going to say it right away. I hated this episode. Don't get me wrong, for what it had to do (set in motion the events seen earlier) it wasn't bad, but the overall story of Londo's fate sucks, so this story was still not good. Londo and G'Kar had great performances, especially in their last scene together before Londo becomes a puppet. But, their talent is wasted in such a crappy plot. Having a short Londo montage at the end felt like a kick in the face, and a borderline taunting of Londo's fans by JMS. This whole Londo fate plot has been bad from the beginning, from the spoilers to the very idea. Its easily the worst plot in B5, and the stupidest character stuff. The fact that Londo is my favorite character makes it even worse. JMS couldn't have written a worse plot for Londo if he tried. I'm also wondering what JMS has against San Diego
This was a horrible way for my favorite character to end up, and knowing it ahead of time just meant i had more time to be angry about it. This isn't the worst B5 episode by far (That honor still belongs to Deconstruction of Falling Stars) but its definately one I hate. Hopefully the last episodes will be good, and I hope Londo just doesn;'t get shown again.
heh. so much for how you thought it would shake out. there was a ton of character growth for Londo between "War Without End" and "The Fall of Centauri Prime". He has saved his planet twice. After Sheridan, he is the second most responsible individual for the rise of the Interstallar Alliance (bringing the League of Non-Aligned Worlds together to back Sheridan against Earth). In the end, Londo is not siding with evil Shadow overlords. He has no choice but to sacrifice his freedom to save his planet and bide his time till he can act. 20 years of siding with evil? not at all. quite the opposite.
I got some details wrong, but it was still stupid. His character development was almost pointless in the end, since its not going to effect things anymore. He should have a choice of sacrificeing his freedom, but since JMS made the shadows allies all powerful on Centauri Prime (they literally are more powerful than the actual shadows at this point when it comes to controlling people) there wasn't one. Londo got defeated by bad writing. But, since JMS would go on to defeat Superman, Spider-Man and Wonder Woman with even worse writing, I guess Londo got off easy. Atleast Londo's "deal with the devil" didn't make him lose a wife, or cause him to take a very lame walking trip around Centauri Prime, or erase him from existence and bring him back dressed like a moron and with a new horrible backstory. Compared to what JMS would do later to some characters, Londo's horrible story arc almost seems just mediocre (I know the comic stuff is a bit different, but since thats how I knew JMS before B5, his comic book work is one of the things I think about when it comes to his writing in general).
Wow...I thought the scene where Londo submitted to the Keeper was one of the most effective and touching scenes since he watched the bombing of the Narn homeworld.
Sorry you don't like it but B5 is about choices and consequences and Londo had to face the consequences of everything he'd done. There ain't no 'happily ever after' on this show...well, almost.
Jan
Sorry you don't like it but B5 is about choices and consequences and Londo had to face the consequences of everything he'd done. There ain't no 'happily ever after' on this show...well, almost.
Jan
Indeed. All of Londos wishes came true. That's the tragedy.
Once again, Kirk was told exactly what would happen, well in advance. Bad writing? I think not. Most of the time when somebody complains of 'bad writing' it can usually be translated as 'But that's now the way I *wanted* it to happen!"
Jan
All the character development pointless? Because of that, Londo has now the courage to say yes to the Drakh and sacrifice himself for the greater good of the Centauri Prime, even though he will know that he will be a prisoner for the rest of his life, isolated from his friends and happiness. And after roughly 18 years from that point he will save Sheridan and Delenn because he understands that is his only chance for a true redemption. The current Londo has that will power. I wouldn't say the man from the first season would do the same things.
Like many have already said, Londo is indeed a tragic character. He is essentially one of the good guys, who just made some really bad choices to gain power, but he still has to pay the price for his actions. He is likeable and you don't want to see him suffer nor make all those bad choices, but that just makes the resolution more emotional and powerful.
Like many have already said, Londo is indeed a tragic character. He is essentially one of the good guys, who just made some really bad choices to gain power, but he still has to pay the price for his actions. He is likeable and you don't want to see him suffer nor make all those bad choices, but that just makes the resolution more emotional and powerful.
I think that's the sole reason you don't like the plot. And that's why it's "bad."
It's a great story. It's a tragic story. The Londo we met in Season One would NEVER have done something like this, for the greater good. One of the reasons its great is because it IS tragic. Star Trek would never have gone there. Everyone lives happily ever after. Except for Tasha.
Londo's story is deeply moving. I'm sorry you think it's bad. But it's not. It's just not. You don't like it because you think your favorite characters have to win all the time. That's not life. That's not good fiction.
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