Okay. I don't see it, but I'm not applying to the Cardassian Bureau of Identification so whatever.
Fan reactions to Starfleet Academy's female Jem'Hadar/Klingon hybrid character
- Thread starter jctechwizard
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Okay. I don't see it, but I'm not applying to the Cardassian Bureau of Identification so whatever.
As I said, it's a mileage may vary situation.
I don't think it's controversial to say that the makeup department under Neville Page/Glen Hetrick was allowed to run wild on Discovery. They seemed to push towards really ornate, over-engineered designs, with the visual depiction of different races changing for the sake of change. That didn't really bother me, however the reliance on full-face silicone masks did, as it really limited the emotive range of the actors. By far the most ridiculous case of this was in DIS's third season, when Orions were depicted with a full mask, when they could easily have been dealt with via face paint as they had on ENT.
It's especially jarring because the other live-action shows have taken a more normal response to makeup. The Klingons have obviously been toned down across Picard, Strange New Worlds, and now Starfleet Academy, with a piece covering the largely immobile forehead/brow/nose, allowing for a full range of motion around the mouth. Similarly, the Ferengi we saw in PIC's third season seemed like it was more minimally made up than Quark on DS9, with the lower half of the face appearing to be the actor's natural mouth/chin.
I think the issue on DIS wasn't really the makeup department per se, but it was a symptom of the general lack of creative control/design philosophy on that show. It seems like once Fuller left, the creative departments all just sort of went off and did their own crazy things, because the showrunners who came after didn't have any unifying vision. So VFX also went a little crazy/depicted things onscreen which at times seemed completely unrelated to the story.
It's especially jarring because the other live-action shows have taken a more normal response to makeup. The Klingons have obviously been toned down across Picard, Strange New Worlds, and now Starfleet Academy, with a piece covering the largely immobile forehead/brow/nose, allowing for a full range of motion around the mouth. Similarly, the Ferengi we saw in PIC's third season seemed like it was more minimally made up than Quark on DS9, with the lower half of the face appearing to be the actor's natural mouth/chin.
I think the issue on DIS wasn't really the makeup department per se, but it was a symptom of the general lack of creative control/design philosophy on that show. It seems like once Fuller left, the creative departments all just sort of went off and did their own crazy things, because the showrunners who came after didn't have any unifying vision. So VFX also went a little crazy/depicted things onscreen which at times seemed completely unrelated to the story.
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The new AndorIan makeup and even the Romulan makeup of the TNG era wasn't as much of a COMPLETE DEPARTURE from the way Klingons looked in TOS.
(And hell, the look of the Klingons changed from film to film from TMP - TUC).
Even Worf's 'look' wasn't 'standardized' until TNG S2.
Also, I dunno if people have noticed, but Fuller is being a bit more public about some things about his departure from Discovery, and claiming he rejected the Klingon redesign before he was fired.
While this could be seen as a self-interested passing of the buck, I am inclined to believe him. One thing that Fuller became notorious for as a showrunner was an inability to stay within budget. So I can see once he's shitcanned and Kurtzman and Goldsman try and put Berg/Harberts in charge to fix the mess just saying "fuck it, we'll use whatever we had finished" in order to rush Discovery out the door.
While this could be seen as a self-interested passing of the buck, I am inclined to believe him. One thing that Fuller became notorious for as a showrunner was an inability to stay within budget. So I can see once he's shitcanned and Kurtzman and Goldsman try and put Berg/Harberts in charge to fix the mess just saying "fuck it, we'll use whatever we had finished" in order to rush Discovery out the door.
How so?
In the above pic (borrowed from an earlier post here in this very thread):
Wolfman = ST:TMP
Okey Dokey = STIII:TSFS
Grandpa = STIV:TVH
Dude Bro = STV: TFF
Pirate = STVI: TUC
In the above pic (borrowed from an earlier post here in this very thread):
Wolfman = ST:TMP
Okey Dokey = STIII:TSFS
Grandpa = STIV:TVH
Dude Bro = STV: TFF
Pirate = STVI: TUC
And I discussed that in this very thread.
The "this post" in question was the one with that picture. My only issue with that picture is that it uses Chang, but we know that Plummer requested a smaller noggin. That other Klingons in ST6 didn't have a small noggin should be a clue of his uniqueness.
You can argue that the TMP guys were too smooth in the temporal ridge area, but Captain Klaa was pretty smooth between the sagittal and temporal ridges. One of the last Klingons seen in Enterprise (K'Vagh) looks rather TMP-esque, as does one of the first other Klingons in TNG (Worf's imaginary plaything).
And, again, there are others with scarcely any temporal ridges throughout the TMP-ENT period of the franchise, including Maltz and his weinernoggin, unlike his temporally-ridged captain. Considering the individual nature of the heads, serving not unlike fingerprints but for some familial connection, I really don't see how you can say "the look of the Klingons changed from film to film". Did we see new heads? Sure, but I don't think we see any that broke the rules.
Because they did.
Wait, really??? The Orion heads were that elaborate?
Then why in the world did we get that awful scene in the finale where Michael Burnham killed Osyraa with a headshot, but the camera never showed a close-up of Osyraa's dead face? That is exactly the time for a TV cliché to hammer in the villain's defeat!
Yeah, there was a time-lapse video with the actress who played Osyraa getting the makeup put on. She had a full silicone mask which went all the way down her neck. You can clearly see this in some of the close shots with the makeup looking weird around her lips (where presumably her natural skin was showing). She also never really expressed much facially, because it would cause the makeup to pull away.
I will say the Season 4 Orion cadet (Harrel) looked a bit more natural. The actor may have just been using green face paint.
Even in DSC Season 1 the Orions were using more than just green paint.
The Season 1 Orions were recolored digitally in post-production, which people decided they didn't like, mostly because it made them look ill rather than like they had green skin.
Again though, I don't understand why bodypaint is that bad. Is there some concern it would look fake in HD?
Probably.
Make up is easier to spot nowadays because of the obsessed nature of looking for the seems in a production while demanding ridiculous visual standards.
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