Ever since Allyn first posted his theory weeks ago, I've been praying that it's not true. Yet, after watching Part One, I'm beginning to worry...
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Trips death was forced in that it was painfully slow n akward, I don't see this happening with the Doctor am sure his death while sad will fit the story and what was needed for the conclusion...Also I don't forsee a fat John Frankes in a time lord costume poping up to watch events
That women who spoke to Wilf who seems to be able to forsee stuff, I wonder if they are the few beings I've heard off whose power is greater than the Time Lords? (eternals maybe). I don't believe the time lords are fully behind this.
I'm thinking more along the lines of if there's a reboot, the 10th gets pretty much wiped from history which reminds me of TATV finished - did it happen or was just a holodeck adventure.
Not too mention what about Jenny who Stephen Moffat has apparantly said he wants to use her at somepoint in Smith's era (would be so funny to have the daughter look older than the father
). Also the whole River Song back story too among other things.she appears early on next season, I mean would her fate change in such a re boot and why would they even meet.
To me a reboot might cause more hassle for Moffat so they need to come up with a way to reset the show without hampering canon.
Yep. He could have played Father Christmas while he was gone, too, dropping off that red bicycle for 12 year-old Rose.
Sarah Jane Adventures would be largely unaffected by a reboot. Torchwood would take a mortal blow; if the Time War-era (and beyond) doesn't happen, then the Torchwood Institute doesn't exist because that came about because of a post-Time War Doctor.
As for Jack, I think he would continue to exist. But it also becomes very tricky.
You could argue that Jack Harkness wouldn't have become immortal — if the Daleks didn't take over the GameStation, if Jack Harkness didn't fall in battle, if Rose didn't absorb the Heart of the TARDIS, then Jack Harkness wouldn't become a fixed point in time. Indeed, Jack Harkness might never have left his life as a trans-temporal grifter behind. He might not even have had the missing two years of his life that caused him to leave the Time Agency.
But, for sake of argument, let's suppose that the history of the past five years (and the history before that) collapses on itself, and that history reverts/reboots to its pre-Time War state. Rose made Jack into a fixed point in time. What if that is something that cannot unhappen? Jack's not a time lock; he's not a dam in the time stream. He is, rather, a part of the time stream.
So what happens to Jack? Well, that's where we go magnificently mental...
Jack becomes an artifact of a timeline that no longer happens. Does Jack retain his memories of that timeline? Does Jack retain the memories of the GameStation, of Torchwood, of traveling with the Doctors, of Owen and Gwen and Tosh and and Ianto and Alice and Stephen. But Jack arriving in Cardiff in the 1880s, Jack working with Torchwood 3 for a century, Jack having a family — these didn't happen anymore. All of the people he knew in the "old" timeline may exist in the new timeline, but they don't know him. He's now a stranger to them. Or in the case of Alice and Stephen, they may never have existed at all.
Talk about something that would fuck with Jack Harkness even more. He's already lost his grandson. Now he's lost his entire existence. Unlike the Doctor, who was the last of the Time Lords, who knew that his people and history were gone, Jack wouldn't have a clue why the universe had suddenly gone wrong around him.
You could argue that Jack Harkness wouldn't have become immortal — if the Daleks didn't take over the GameStation, if Jack Harkness didn't fall in battle, if Rose didn't absorb the Heart of the TARDIS, then Jack Harkness wouldn't become a fixed point in time. Indeed, Jack Harkness might never have left his life as a trans-temporal grifter behind. He might not even have had the missing two years of his life that caused him to leave the Time Agency.
But, for sake of argument, let's suppose that the history of the past five years (and the history before that) collapses on itself, and that history reverts/reboots to its pre-Time War state. Rose made Jack into a fixed point in time. What if that is something that cannot unhappen? Jack's not a time lock; he's not a dam in the time stream. He is, rather, a part of the time stream.
So what happens to Jack? Well, that's where we go magnificently mental...
Jack becomes an artifact of a timeline that no longer happens. Does Jack retain his memories of that timeline? Does Jack retain the memories of the GameStation, of Torchwood, of traveling with the Doctors, of Owen and Gwen and Tosh and and Ianto and Alice and Stephen. But Jack arriving in Cardiff in the 1880s, Jack working with Torchwood 3 for a century, Jack having a family — these didn't happen anymore. All of the people he knew in the "old" timeline may exist in the new timeline, but they don't know him. He's now a stranger to them. Or in the case of Alice and Stephen, they may never have existed at all.
Talk about something that would fuck with Jack Harkness even more. He's already lost his grandson. Now he's lost his entire existence. Unlike the Doctor, who was the last of the Time Lords, who knew that his people and history were gone, Jack wouldn't have a clue why the universe had suddenly gone wrong around him.
Yes, I realize that Barrowman has started talking about a fourth season of Torchwood. But RTD has also been trying to walk that back, saying that nothing's been decided.
For what it's worth, EMH, I don't want to be right. I don't want RTD punching the Reset Button on his way out the door. It does solve some problems for Moffat -- seriously, the world of 2010 in the Whoniverse shouldn't be recognizable to us anymore -- but it also introduces others. It's a lazy solution, the reset button. It lets RTD have his spectacle, it lets him break the toys, but it also puts everything back in the box. I want to be wrong, and I hope that I am.
Maybe things are reset to before the time war or maybe the Doctor is reset with a new set of regenerations.
It is funny that Matt Smith's TARDIS looks like the original Hartnel TARDIS and Smith is dressed similar to him.
It is funny that Matt Smith's TARDIS looks like the original Hartnel TARDIS and Smith is dressed similar to him.
If there's a reset button, I'll eat my hat.
You don't wear a hat, Steve.
Excellent analysis concerning Jack. Just when he thought his life couldn't get anymore fucked up.
Ah, good, I'm glad you don't want it to happen either. Here's hoping.
Allyn, I think there is a bit of over thinking, TPTB are not going to let things get that complicated and are not going to do anthing that would have effects on SJA and Torchwood as they are there own shows and not dependant on what happens in Doctor Who. Sure there are occasional connections but Doctor Who does not dictate those shows direction.
But I own several.
(I really like hats, I just think I look dumb in them, and besides, they don't exactly make ones that fit my head.)
Here's the question that hasn't been asked:
What kind of Whoniverse does Steven Moffat want to inherit? Does he want to continue down the paths set by RTD, or does he have something else in mind? Maybe he wants certain things to go in a different direction. This would be the very best point to make those changes.
And Steve Mollman, you aren't fooling anyone! Steve the Mole man! Steven M!
Reveal yourself!
What kind of Whoniverse does Steven Moffat want to inherit? Does he want to continue down the paths set by RTD, or does he have something else in mind? Maybe he wants certain things to go in a different direction. This would be the very best point to make those changes.
And Steve Mollman, you aren't fooling anyone! Steve the Mole man! Steven M!
Reveal yourself!
River Song being in season 5 says to me no reset is happening. and if it does i'll do something humiliating in public.
What about the Tenth Doctor, Rose and Mickey helping her fight the Krillitanes and introducing K-9 Mark IV in School Reunion? And Ten turning up to save her from the Trickster in The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith?
And I don't think Ten will be totally erased from existence anyway. I've seen some photos of Matt Smith from his premiere episode wearing Tennant's outfit. And then, of course, River Song will be appearing.
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I doubt series (I refuse to call it Series 1 or 1.5 or whatever the hell Moffat wants us to call it) 5 will affect Sarah Jane Adventures or Torchwood Series Four when it eventually returns. Those shows have pretty self contained stories that are designed to affect the characters in those shows. I don't think any one has suggested that the Eleventh Doctor's era will be a reboot either, perhaps a new direction for the series just as RTD's era has been but not a reboot.
Thats not a bad thing! I was glad to see the clip at the end of part one that showed the Timelords lived in more than a dark grey set.
Oh yes.
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