Early Criticism: What’s Unfounded and What Isn’t

[ToddCam]

It‘s honestly kind of baffling (if not totally surprising) how much discussion a male character wearing a skirt can generate. These producers are playing certain parts of the audience like a fiddle.


This can only come from someone who I‘m certain has never watched even a single episode of that show. I‘m sorry, but this is just some prejudice you have towards it, because it‘s actualy some well-written coming of age drama with solid character work and intelligent dialogue. The protagonists being young people and the topic often being their adolescent love lives doesn‘t make it “brain dead television”.

Dawson's Creek had its silly aspects (like the WHO HAD SEX THAT WEEKEND?!?! episode), but I agree it had some very good stuff. As a young deeply closeted gay man, the Jack story line was very helpful to me in coming into my own acceptance. Since a lot of the SFA criticism is tied into anti-woke stuff, I can understand that not being appreciated by a lot of the critics.

 

[fireproof78]

now...dismissing the message (or the messenger) without knowing (or listening to) the message.

RMB is not a messenger I find worth giving time towards. His history has spoken for itself in my opinion.
.

Imagine if TOS had Sherwood Schwartz type pranks like the Brady Bunch and Gilligan's Island, popular shows in the mid and late 60s, early 70s.

Ok.

I'm on board.

 

[tenmei]

Dawson's Creek had its silly aspects (like the WHO HAD SEX THAT WEEKEND?!?! episode), but I agree it had some very good stuff. As a young deeply closeted gay man, the Jack story line was very helpful to me in coming into my own acceptance. Since a lot of the SFA criticism is tied into anti-woke stuff, I can understand that not being appreciated by a lot of the critics.

I did my dissertation at University on teen drama, but was more of an OC fan myself.

 

[ichab]

I think you touched upon a good point in that ST in general was what peopled turned to when the other stuff on was so formulaic...
however when ST starts to incorporate the same tropes that all other shows incorporate, well what then differentiates it from everything else, aside from the name badge....again this is nothing new....

it's just wrapped in euphemisms: "Fresh Take", "Modern Audience" read as: we're using the name but doing something completely different.

Imagine if TOS had Sherwood Schwartz type pranks like the Brady Bunch and Gilligan's Island, popular shows in the mid and late 60s, early 70s.

(Trying to picture Spock getting hit in the head with a Football and then screaming "Oh, My Ears!!!" )

Or what if Kirk always lounged around his captain's chair like he was in his man cave. No one would have taken that show seriously and no one would have been asking for a movie about it ten years later.

 

[ichab]

This can only come from someone who I‘m certain has never watched even a single episode of that show.

Back when it was current I watched it along with my roomate for four years. I know the show very well. It was the typical teen drama that I can't stand.

I‘m sorry, but this is just some prejudice you have towards it, because it‘s actualy some well-written coming of age drama with solid character work and intelligent dialogue. The protagonists being young people and the topic often being their adolescent love lives doesn‘t make it “brain dead television”.

I'm sorry, but you are one crappy moderator. Don't throw insults at me just because I called a show you like brain dead. I wasn't attacking you, I was making my opinion about a style of show known which is perfectly reasonable under the rule guidelines. I didn't just mention Dawson's Creek, I also mentioned others too, which you selectively edited out. I don't like teen dramas. Never did even when I was a teen myself. If you can't handle reading that, don't participate in a criticism thread.

 

[Turtletrekker]

RMB is not a messenger I find worth giving time towards. His history has spoken for itself in my opinion.

This. I've heard his message before and I heard it loud and clear then. No need to hear it again.

And his spoiling of the Guardian of Forever twist in Discovery was just a douchebag move.

 

[ToddCam]

The audience in the 1960s is not the same as that of now. It's comparing apples and oranges.

And a man cave is very '00s, too, so not even a great analogy.

I will concede to appreciating that there is something over-the-top for Ake to be throwing herself around like that. It seems like it would be annoying to deal with and feels very unprofessional to my early 21st century Gen X/Millennial cusp sensibilities. In terms of a military, it seems incongruous, but so do a lot of things throughout the franchise (the doctor throwing out racial slurs at the first officer, walking around in an evening gown while on bridge duty, having only one person with any medical training on a ship of 150 for seven years). None of those things broke my enjoyment, and neither does this. If it did, I would just stop watching.

 

[Firebird]

This. I've heard his message before and I heard it loud and clear then. No need to hear it again.

And his spoiling of the Guardian of Forever twist in Discovery was just a douchebag move.

Him getting the boot from ever working on home video projects again with Paramount after his loathsome behavior with the Axanar grift couldn't have happened to a more deserving asshole.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Back when it was current I watched it along with my roomate for four years. I know the show very well. It was the typical teen drama that I can't stand.


I'm sorry, but you are one crappy moderator. Don't throw insults at me just because I called a show you like brain dead. I wasn't attacking you, I was making my opinion about a style of show known which is perfectly reasonable under the rule guidelines. I didn't just mention Dawson's Creek, I also mentioned others too, which you selectively edited out. I don't like teen dramas. Never have. If you can't handle reading that, don't participate in a criticism thread.

Doesn't that kind of prove his point?

 

[tenmei]

Ake's vibe is very much - "What are they going go do, fire me?" Which she probably wouldn't mind in the long run, but Ake was being offered the job regardless of the carrot that Vance dangled in front of her of finding Caleb. But he offered it to her before he brought that up, Caleb was just his way of getting her to accept - so she cleary knows what shes doing if the CnC offers her the job, even if she IS laidback.

 

[ToddCam]

Ake's vibe is very much - "What are they going go do, fire me?" Which she probably wouldn't mind in the long run, but Ake was being offered the job regardless of the carrot that Vance dangled in front of her of finding Caleb. But he offered it to her before he brought that up, Caleb was just his way of getting her to accept - so she cleary knows what shes doing if the CnC offers her the job, even if she IS laidback.

Yes. It makes sense. Perfectly fits within her character and what the show has depicted so far.

Doesn't mean it isn't annoying!

 

[Nerys Myk]

She's fun and different. Would she pass muster in a real world military? Probably not. But who knows what sort of quirky COs are out there. Would she past muster in a real world academic setting? Maybe, Educators can be pretty weird.

 

[Set Harth]

The audience in the 1960s is not the same as that of now. It's comparing apples and oranges.

For some reason I read this as "comparing apples and orgies".

 

[Mudd]

She's fun and different. Would she pass muster in a real world military? Probably not.

Brace yourself.

James Kirk wouldn't pass muster in a real world military. He wouldn't have made it out of the first tranche of episodes without a general court martial leading to his discharge, and maybe some prison time.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Brace yourself.

James Kirk wouldn't pass muster in a real world military. He wouldn't have made it out of the first tranche of episodes without a general court martial leading to his discharge, and maybe some prison time.

Now there's your reboot!!!!

 

[ichab]

Again I ask...where was the hating? It shouldn't be hard to provide details since you watched it(watchmojo video) right?

 

[ichab]

in his post (being referenced) he mentioned nothing about skirts, he mentions the series proper and his discontentment with it.

I highly doubt that any of those points will be addressed nor the ones posed in the watchmojo video.

 

[bdub76]

This can only come from someone who I‘m certain has never watched even a single episode of that show. I‘m sorry, but this is just some prejudice you have towards it, because it‘s actualy some well-written coming of age drama with solid character work and intelligent dialogue. The protagonists being young people and the topic often being their adolescent love lives doesn‘t make it “brain dead television”.

Dawson's Creek was really well done. I'm more of a fan of My So Called Life, but Dawson's Creek was a solid teen drama.

 

[bdub76]

That about wraps up this topic, then.

Let me go at this a different way.

Is this show bringing in the Gen Z kids? At the end of the day, the IP needs to keep bringing in new fans.

I ask because I flew back from Gallifrey One (a Doctor Who convention) today, and I didn't see the Gen Z kids like I did with the Millennial kids when the show was restarted in 2005. Ncuti's Doctor run was really progressive, but I'm not seeing the new fans like I did with David and Matt. If anything, the average age appears to be getting older.

The biggest risk with SFA is that it turns off the older fans and doesn't bring in new ones. And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the old audience seeing a Klingon in a skirt would turn them off, and I'm not convinced that it will bring in new ones to replace those that it loses. We saw Ncuti's Doctor in a skirt, but I didn't see the audience numbers going up. Spectacle isn't story.

So I'm going go with something that Mark Strickson (Turlough) said at Gallifrey One. He quoted Hitchcock and said that the three most important things are: story, story, and story.

 

[Starflight]

Yeah even as someone who's broadly enjoying SFA, the idea that it's going to be successful in bringing in Gen Z/Alpha kids is insane. Somehow it actually feels even more like it's aimed at 30+ year old people than SNW does.

Something about the slightly odd mix of decades-old teen drama tropes/aesthetics, callbacks to 30 - 60 year old Star Trek episodes, and the faux-"cool" writing which is agonisingly millennial.