Early Criticism: What’s Unfounded and What Isn’t

[Agony_Boothb]

I think you're having trouble understanding modern day slang or what slang is. Facts are facts people won't be talking like gen z in 1100 years with all the current slang.

People won't be speaking modern english in 1100 years, or at the very least a form of english that we can vaguely/barely recognise.

It's a tv series written in 2026. of course it's going to use modern relateable language. Get over it or just put it down to the universal translator in your tv set.

 

[Mudd]

Space words and so on.

Christ, no.

Uh, I mean, "Mighty Kahless, forbid!"

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Then there's words and phrases that were used all the time in the past but only in certain venues that not everyone would have/desire access to regularly - not like the Internet, where we belong to multiple social media sites and are exposed on a regular basis to speech which would have been physically/geographically separated from us (slang from other countries, lower and higher social classes/contexts, different parts of the city, criminals, etc.)

 

[flyerdog]

The Problem I have with critique and criticism of critique is how everything has to get focused through a particular lens (mainly Identity) and how if you denigrate something, or even offer input as to WHY something doesn't work, it immediately gets filtered through that lens , or the incorporation of ageism: "Ok, Boomer!"

SFA has plenty of material which violates canon and world building, and criticism of that does not make one the lastest "-ist" or "-phobe"....even though that is often how things are manifested....we've become like Pavlov's dog where honest constructive criticism is not even tolerated, and the "identity alarms" go up immediately.

and boy is there a lot of bad in this show from that standpoint. Just the little I've seen, things like reading glasses, Wheelchairs, Signing Betazoids, Holograms in the gym(????) that same hologram exhaling air when submerged in water...?????? Hologram showering???????????

I don't recall the Doctor from Voyager ever taking a sonic shower.

The Commandant of Starfleet lounging around in bare feet and pajamas?

I wonder if
General R.J. Garcia (Commandant of West Point), or Capt. Austin Jackson (Naval Academy Commander) do this on a daily basis.

further, the need to reinvent canon is not only arrogant, it's lazy..be it ST, SW, or LoTR...

petty differences were put aside and people engaged in discourse without volatility (see the scene from The Savage Curtain where Abe makes a comment towards Uhura, and her response...)

I think one of the biggest problems is this new paradigm of serializing everything, when you have to spread everything over 10 hours as opposed to 1 hr, you have to have filler, or you have to make VERY fast leaps because it's all about the endgame, or series finale.

when you have stand alone one -off episodes, things can be a lot more nutrient dense, to use a metaphor.

 

[ToddCam]

The fixation on identity seems to come from more recalcitrant directions, I've found, with the constant complaining about wokeness or overexposure of minority groups or issues. We are no longer in the era of "let's pretend we've overcome bigotry by making a friendly racist joke". Since in Star Trek these "identities" are rarely overtly referenced by the media itself, it's the presence that seems to bother these people. It's easy to dismiss the need to have representation when you are already represented.

I'm not one to necessarily disdain the questioning of something's presence with regards to the science fiction setting, for the most part, but there seems to be a fixation on these things beyond noting it and moving on. The sign language, the wheelchair. Use your imagination for why they are that way instead of needing everything spoonfed to you. Why is there an expectation of the audience not having to think about the world and come up with your own answers?

As for canon, I am most frustrated by the double standards these purists have for everything beyond when their idea of the story's structure set in their minds. No matter how many times you point out the inconsistencies of past productions, it's always somehow of a nature that is acceptable in a way the new ones aren't. It's frustrating at best.

 

[Starflight]

Yeah the "wokeness" allegations against SFA are concerning because the show so far seemingly has no political message to make whatsoever. The "woke" accusations seems to come entirely from the fact that several cast members are black and/or female.

With DSC and to an extent SNW you could charitably assume that people complaining about "wokeness" were referring to the sterile corporate HR tone the shows both have, or the hamfisted political messaging which (from my vague memory) DSC did attempt from time to time, but so far in SFA there's genuinely nothing I can think of in the first three episodes that people could be referring to other than the sex and race of the cast.

 

[Set Harth]

Holograms in the gym(????) that same hologram exhaling air when submerged in water...??????

Exhaling a hologram of air?

 

[Michael]

The Problem I have with critique and criticism of critique is how everything has to get focused through a particular lens (mainly Identity) and how if you denigrate something, or even offer input as to WHY something doesn't work, it immediately gets filtered through that lens , or the incorporation of ageism: "Ok, Boomer!"

SFA has plenty of material which violates canon and world building, and criticism of that does not make one the lastest "-ist" or "-phobe"....even though that is often how things are manifested....we've become like Pavlov's dog where honest constructive criticism is not even tolerated, and the "identity alarms" go up immediately.

and boy is there a lot of bad in this show from that standpoint. Just the little I've seen, things like reading glasses, Wheelchairs, Signing Betazoids, Holograms in the gym(????) that same hologram exhaling air when submerged in water...?????? Hologram showering???????????

I don't recall the Doctor from Voyager ever taking a sonic shower.

The Commandant of Starfleet lounging around in bare feet and pajamas?

I wonder if
General R.J. Garcia (Commandant of West Point), or Capt. Austin Jackson (Naval Academy Commander) do this on a daily basis.

further, the need to reinvent canon is not only arrogant, it's lazy..be it ST, SW, or LoTR...

petty differences were put aside and people engaged in discourse without volatility (see the scene from The Savage Curtain where Abe makes a comment towards Uhura, and her response...)

I think one of the biggest problems is this new paradigm of serializing everything, when you have to spread everything over 10 hours as opposed to 1 hr, you have to have filler, or you have to make VERY fast leaps because it's all about the endgame, or series finale.

when you have stand alone one -off episodes, things can be a lot more nutrient dense, to use a metaphor.

None of what you list “violates canon” or “world building” (whatever that even means).

And I don’t know how serious I can take any of your criticism when you basically admit you haven’t even really watched the show and probably are just reacting to what you’ve seen in videos / articles talking about it.

I think one of the biggest problems is this new paradigm of serializing everything, when you have to spread everything over 10 hours as opposed to 1 hr, you have to have filler, or you have to make VERY fast leaps because it's all about the endgame, or series finale.

Case in point: Largely the show has been presented as episodic so far. Its storytelling is much closer to how they had story arcs on 90s shows like Deep Space Nine, where you would have standalone episodes with an overarching storyline for the season.

criticism of that does not make one the lastest "-ist" or "-phobe"

the incorporation of ageism: "Ok, Boomer!"

That’s at least a little ironic.

 

[Michael]

Yeah the "wokeness" allegations against SFA are concerning because the show so far seemingly has no political message to make whatsoever. The "woke" accusations seems to come entirely from the fact that several cast members are black and/or female.

With DSC and to an extent SNW you could charitably assume that people complaining about "wokeness" were referring to the sterile corporate HR tone the shows both have, or the hamfisted political messaging which (from my vague memory) DSC did attempt from time to time, but so far in SFA there's genuinely nothing I can think of in the first three episodes that people could be referring to other than the sex and race of the cast.

This greatly underestimates what constitutes “woke” in the minds of anti-woke conservatives. Just the mere fact that there are people of color, queer people or … gasp … women in leadership positions on a show warrants calling it “woke trash”. These people are freaking out when they see something as everyday as a person in a wheelchair or, I don’t know, a woman with shorter hair (aka “a lesbian”). This has almost nothing to do anymore with actually including any sort of political messaging. Really, society at large should just stop accepting the word “woke” as an insult. Like “Social Justice Warrior” before it, it aims to denigrate and downplay attempts to wish for a world that is more just.

 

[Turtletrekker]

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[flyerdog]

The fixation on identity seems to come from more recalcitrant directions, I've found, with the constant complaining about wokeness or overexposure of minority groups or issues. We are no longer in the era of "let's pretend we've overcome bigotry by making a friendly racist joke". Since in Star Trek these "identities" are rarely overtly referenced by the media itself, it's the presence that seems to bother these people. It's easy to dismiss the need to have representation when you are already represented.

I'm not one to necessarily disdain the questioning of something's presence with regards to the science fiction setting, for the most part, but there seems to be a fixation on these things beyond noting it and moving on. The sign language, the wheelchair. Use your imagination for why they are that way instead of needing everything spoonfed to you. Why is there an expectation of the audience not having to think about the world and come up with your own answers?

As for canon, I am most frustrated by the double standards these purists have for everything beyond when their idea of the story's structure set in their minds. No matter how many times you point out the inconsistencies of past productions, it's always somehow of a nature that is acceptable in a way the new ones aren't. It's frustrating at best.

the term 'canon' covers a broad range of topics. Canon, to use the term, can change...and in previous series that change is hinted at:

"errand of mercy" - "in the future you and the Klingons will be fast friends"

"Q Who": "Some day it might be possible to have a relationship with them (The Borg) but right now you're just raw material"

That doesn't change poor writing or inconsistencies such as cadets in Wheelchairs, Reading glasses, and holograms that breathe, I wonder if my Alexa "breathes" when I'm not home, :-)

Worf has walking prosthetics in TNG and had a cloned spine in "ethics", where did that technology go? why didn't it evolve? Geordi got new eyes.
what happened to Replicators? why are people "hungry"?

there are other ways to show "inclusion", more creative ways, I'm sure, I'm not an author so out of my skillset, to be sure.

not to mention a peculiar commanding officer who radiates anything but gravitas

and yeah I have watched the show, or tried to; which is a more fair assessment, but just can't get past these inconsistencies, the characters, or the overall feel

 

[flyerdog]

This greatly underestimates what constitutes “woke” in the minds of anti-woke conservatives. Just the mere fact that there are people of color, queer people or … gasp … women in leadership positions on a show warrants calling it “woke trash”. These people are freaking out when they see something as everyday as a person in a wheelchair or, I don’t know, a woman with shorter hair (aka “a lesbian”). This has almost nothing to do anymore with actually including any sort of political messaging. Really, society at large should just stop accepting the word “woke” as an insult. Like “Social Justice Warrior” before it, it aims to denigrate and downplay attempts to wish for a world that is more just.

I think you are making the point I was referring to. "Just having women" or "People of Color" (that's an interesting term BTW, during Jim Crow they used a similar term, which I will not repeat)....doesn't make it "woke trash"...

with all due respect I find that to be the flipside argument of those that DO call things "Woke trash"....in the polarized culture we live in.

There are examples of what you refer to that are accepted by even the most..um... discerning (that's a 'nice' word that I'm using!!!)

it has to do, i think, more with character construction and story, and it has nothing to do with political affiliation, though I grant you that certain factions are a bit more, um, passionate(?) about certain things (again I'm trying to be nice!!!)...

I am certainly not one who wears a red hat, and don't cast myself in that demographic...hell I'm even a "Person of Color" (again, never liked that term!).

But in order to avoid being in a bubble, I try to absorb different perspectives and discuss things with people (especially media) from an analytical and intellectual perspective, that's where tolerance and understanding will ultimately come from.

 

[Fateor]

That doesn't change poor writing or inconsistencies such as cadets in Wheelchairs, Reading glasses, and holograms that breathe, I wonder if my Alexa "breathes" when I'm not home, :-)

Worf has walking prosthetics in TNG and had a cloned spine in "ethics", where did that technology go? why didn't it evolve? there are other ways to show "inclusion", more creative ways, I'm sure, I'm not an author so out of my skillset, to be sure.

Yeah... The Wheelchair is kind of egregious...

Because even discounting Trek medical technology, we've had mobility assistance exoskeletons for years at this point.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I definitely thought it was weird seeing the air bubbles when Sam was in the water, but she has a physical presence, so there would be air in her mouth even if she was doing nothing with it. Also maybe she just has lungs. We're always seeing shapeshifters and robots imitating humans more closely than they really need to.

 

[CT_Phipps]

Monetized outrage has changed the nature of discourse on the internet as people are now paid to hate something more than anyone else on the planet.

 

[flyerdog]

Yeah... The Wheelchair is kind of egregious...

Because even discounting Trek medical technology, we've had mobility assistance exoskeletons for years at this point.

believe me I know, 15 years working on an acute care Spinal Cord Injury floor..with paraplegics and quadraplegics...our hospital was one of the clinical trial hospitals when some of these suits were developed...

 

[TRON JA307020]

I would love to see the 32nd be different in its own ways. Language is not one of those ways I am concerned over. They should be changing due to the lives and background technology they have, not how they talk to one another.

But, I'll be credits to navy beans that the drama is more important to the writers.

Having 32nd century humans and aliens talking like 21st century humans slang and vernacular takes me out of the story. Even when I was a kid I realized the characters on star trek talked differently. I realized it was because it was 300 years later and language had somewhat changed.

People won't be speaking modern english in 1100 years, or at the very least a form of english that we can vaguely/barely recognise.

It's a tv series written in 2026. of course it's going to use modern relateable language. Get over it or just put it down to the universal translator in your tv set.

Earlier shows cut out a lot of modern slang abd swearing. The there was a reason for that. To show language had changed in 300 years as well as humans not feeling the need to swear any longer.

Even the jetsons a half hour kids cartoons realized how language changes over tome and made up a futuristic slang for the show.

Just laziness on the writers part. They cant write a futuristic show without writing like the way they talk themselves or the way their kids talk.

 

[fireproof78]

Worf has walking prosthetics in TNG and had a cloned spine in "ethics", where did that technology go? why didn't it evolve? Geordi got new eyes.
what happened to Replicators? why are people "hungry"?

The cloned spine was completed under unethical means and would not be utilized since the doctor would rightfully be in jail.

Not everyone has access to replicators as was shown regularly in TNG.

Monetized outrage has changed the nature of discourse on the internet as people are now paid to hate something more than anyone else on the planet.

Which is ridiculous. Trek fans claim Trek is for smart people.

 

[flyerdog]

Monetized outrage has changed the nature of discourse on the internet as people are now paid to hate something more than anyone else on the planet.

and you can't have yin without yang, those that rebut those very things are doing nicely as well.

 

[flyerdog]

The cloned spine was completed under unethical means and would not be utilized since the doctor would rightfully be in jail.

Not everyone has access to replicators as was shown regularly in TNG.

Which is ridiculous. Trek fans claim Trek is for smart people.

The MD would be in jail, the technology would continue, if an MD prescribed an expeirmental medication that killed a patient, they would potentially jail the MD, they wouldn't ban the medication, in fact they would study it more

even the moon missions were based on the V2 German rockets that were used to attack the Allies in WW2, in fact I believe some German scientists were hire by NASA to help in the transition