Right there with you. As someone who grew up watching the OT with a sense of wonder, I'm left with a lot of conflicting feelings.
Each time I see Revenge of the Sith...
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Right there with you. As someone who grew up watching the OT with a sense of wonder, I'm left with a lot of conflicting feelings.
One point: It's only necessary that Anakin believe Padme dead and that he was responsible. Leia's dialog in RotJ implies that Padme was alive at least until Leia was four or five. I say four or five because that's old enough for her to recall her mother being "very beautiful" and "very sad" but indistinctly. Until Luke talks to her on Endor, there's no indication in the OT that Leia knows she's adopted or that the woman she believes is her mother, as Luke asks "your real mother", isn't. Padme pining away over a few years or succumbing to her injuries while in exile on Alderaan isn't as dramatic as her dying in childbirth, but it fits the OT better and is, IMO, somewhat more plausible.I feel I must address this point; the death of Padme was necessarry, both in the context and in the long run.
Yes, she had to die, because it's made clear in the OT she is dead. But that's not the only reason. It was made clear early in the movie that Anakin feared losing Padme; his vision magnified that fear. This was his final nail in the coffin as it were to joining the dark side.
However, as Anakin descends deeper into the path of destruction, and he finally jumps the ship so to speak, he kills Padme because she rejects him, even though he was the one who caused said rejection.
And there is where we find a cruel irony: Anakin by turning to the dark side to prevent that vision from coming true, was actually fulfilling that vision himself. He made all this effort and betrayed his way of life and friends to save her, but in the end it was these very actions that damned her to her fate.
I can certainly appreciate that point that Lucas was making through use of irony.
Agreed!I think that's why most of the time i watch it with the sound almost off while i do assignments.
the thing that IMO makes ROTS go from mediocre to awful (story-wise) is the total idiocy of Anakin's turn to the dark side. this is something that should have been built up over AOTC and ROTS and yet even when Anakin turns to the dark side it is for a sort of altruistic reason (i.e. to save padme) but then later on it seems like when you "turn" to the dark side you all of a sudden want to kill your master and take over the universe.... ah whatever.
I think you could see him starting to turn at times to the dark side in AOTC killing the Raider village was one example of that.
That's true to some degree i suppose... Lucas did try to foreshadow the evil that would come but I think it didn't come across as a progressive thing - more of a few isolated incidents that at least to some degree could've been understandable if not justifiable.
Also I think another problem is that Lucas uses dialog where a visual scene would have been more effective. For example instead of having Anakin come back and explain what he did I think it would have been more effective for Padme to go searching for him and find him kneeling in emotional torment amongst some not necessarily too graphic sand people bodies. Let portman give him a needed hug but also show the reaction of horror on her face which he doesn't see as the camera slowly backs away revealing the extent of his wrath.
Stuff like that.
Ive watched it only once more after seeing it in the theater. Its still a great movie to me. But to tell the truth whenever I watch a movie to many times, it starts to lose some of its newness , which in turn I think makes the film not so great anymore. I think you may have just burned out on it. How many times have you watched it since 2005?
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Seeing as how she didn't know where he was and how to find him and it was at night I don't see that as making much sense. But I do think that Yoda could feel what happened as well.
Since every minor problem in the prequels have been criticized for the past three years I don't see people overlooking that one.
Eh, I thought his whole "we don't have to hide anymore, we can make things how we want them" on Mustafar was a good, believable outgrow of his admiration for Palpatine, simple-mindedness (black-and-white viewpoints), endorsement of dictatorship in Clones (although that was too small there), his resentment of having to hide and in fact dislike of most of the anti-pride/self/attachment Jedi ideals and regulations in the first place.
I don't rewatch movies too much. In Menace, the stakes are comparatively a lot lower, as an introduction it has a different tone, Anakin is too much of a Angelic Good Movie kid, while in Clones (which had the story a bit too thin) he's too consistently whiny & we don't really seeing why Padme likes him. I like Palpatine and certain scenes a lot though.
I found SITH much more enjoyable than the previous 2 movies, no less stupid, but more enjoyable none-the-less. Then again, there's something about watching it with geeky college friends that probably improves the fun level.
There are a few somewhat workable emotional scenes, such as the final duel and Yoda's reaction to the death of the Jedi. (Ironically the most emotionally effective performance is delivered by the CGI Yoda. )
The final 'checklist of scenes' I found quite enjoyable, probably because they didn't put any clunky dialog in them. It was all told by the music, and as a result it has the best final scene in the trilogy.
There are a few somewhat workable emotional scenes, such as the final duel and Yoda's reaction to the death of the Jedi. (Ironically the most emotionally effective performance is delivered by the CGI Yoda.
)The final 'checklist of scenes' I found quite enjoyable, probably because they didn't put any clunky dialog in them. It was all told by the music, and as a result it has the best final scene in the trilogy.
Wouldn't that just be like a silent film? Someone should edit the films in grainy black and white with organ music.
Agreed. I certainly wish Lucas had gone this route. Anakin's vision of her death could have been planted by Palpatine and Padme could have gone into hiding with her daughter. Having her die was not only inconsistent with the OT, it was incredibly implausible given what we know of SW technology. Not to mention that people simply don't drop dead from a "broken heart" in all of three seconds!
That I can agree with. One of the most sage rules of storytelling is well, "show, don't tell".
On the last point, really, she couldn't of stayed alive, because casual fans would've of cried foul; the reason being that they'd have to go out later and hunt down some book to find out Padme's ultimate fate.
Don't get me wrong, I like the EU, but an important character's fate as hers was well, too important to demote to offscreen.
You know, that's a really good point about all these continuing stories. Star Trek was very much the combined efforts of many people, as were the first two (and only good) Star Wars films. This "vision" business is a code word for "successful formula we desperately want to replicate to make a bunch of of money but we'll talk abuot it like a religious dogma to appease the diehard fans". It always ends up being restrictive and ultimately kills the vitality and creativity of a fictional universe.
One point: It's only necessary that Anakin believe Padme dead and that he was responsible. Leia's dialog in RotJ implies that Padme was alive at least until Leia was four or five. I say four or five because that's old enough for her to recall her mother being "very beautiful" and "very sad" but indistinctly. Until Luke talks to her on Endor, there's no indication in the OT that Leia knows she's adopted or that the woman she believes is her mother, as Luke asks "your real mother", isn't. Padme pining away over a few years or succumbing to her injuries while in exile on Alderaan isn't as dramatic as her dying in childbirth, but it fits the OT better and is, IMO, somewhat more plausible.I feel I must address this point; the death of Padme was necessarry, both in the context and in the long run.
Yes, she had to die, because it's made clear in the OT she is dead. But that's not the only reason. It was made clear early in the movie that Anakin feared losing Padme; his vision magnified that fear. This was his final nail in the coffin as it were to joining the dark side.
However, as Anakin descends deeper into the path of destruction, and he finally jumps the ship so to speak, he kills Padme because she rejects him, even though he was the one who caused said rejection.
And there is where we find a cruel irony: Anakin by turning to the dark side to prevent that vision from coming true, was actually fulfilling that vision himself. He made all this effort and betrayed his way of life and friends to save her, but in the end it was these very actions that damned her to her fate.
I can certainly appreciate that point that Lucas was making through use of irony.
I see the point you're making, but then there'd be no tragic irony.
It was actually a similar conversation about Lucas that prompted me to dig up the dvds and rewatch them.
I'm not sure if it is a recent development but certainly I've noticed alot more of the Lucas-is-a-genius stuff in recent years than ever before. (Although I have noticed this word bandied about more frequently in general with other people too)
Still, especially after watching some of the special features it sort of seems to me comparable to giving Pope Julius II the credit for painting the sistine chapel.
The reaction I get is something along the lines of the old joke about not moving your arm a certain way if it hurts....
RAMA
