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Dune 2018 (19,20,21...)

Personally, I'm fine just ignoring all of the nuDune stuff because experience has taught me it's just not worth the energy.

Yes, the "house trilogy" that was first out of the gate was OK. Passable pulp sci-fi; Which is kind of a problem since Dune wasn't really pulp sci-fi, and neither were any of Frank's sequels. It's not just the shift in the quality of writing it's the implicit level of intelligence behind the writing and the shift in tone. Even when Frank was all but phoning it in in the later novels, he still cared enough to imbue the text with layers and some nuance.

Next up was I think the Butlarian Jihad books, which is a story many fans were very curious about since it's some of Dune's deep lore; akin to the first and second age stuff in Tolkien's works. And what we got was...mostly more of the same, only worse. Paper thin characters, schlocky horror cliché in place of an actual antagonist, and a plot so convoluted and yet so boring that it really didn't need 3 books to play out. This is not just a step down from greatness, or failing to live up to the impossible standards of a genius. It's minimum effort hackery. They didn't even *try* to honour Frank's work, indeed they actively tried to *replace* it.

For me the final insult was the "conclusion" to Frank's original novel series. Which managed to be even more superficial, less sensical and weirdly forgettable. Worse, it was basically a crappy sequel to their own other books in disguise, and again stretched out to several books when one would have more than sufficed. I gather after that there's been more, but I don't care. Learnt my lesson. Not interested.

Now here's the thing; while I also have no skin in the game when it comes to KJA & BH as people (though KJA also being in on some of the most dire crap in the old Star Wars EU doesn't help matters.) But most accounts I've heard of their interactions with the fanbase, combined with the stagnant creativity and diminishing returns in writing quality leaves me inclined to take most of what I hear at face value and just avoid it altogether.

Dune has the potential to be a *great* franchise. It could have been to epic sci-fi what Tolkien is the epic fantasy...but the Herbert estate doesn't seem to care. It seems to only want to harvest the maximum profits from the minimum investment. Low effort. Lowest common denominator. Creatively bankrupt. Tripe.

And if anyone else what's to go read it; fine! I truly hope you enjoy it. But please don't make out that they rest of us that do not share that opinion are being mindlessly critical, or trying to hold something to an impossible standard. We've been to that restaurant, we've been served the rancid meat, and we saw the rat droppings by the kitchen. We're not in any hurry to go back there. The one star rating was overly generous. You go nuts, but for us; no thank you!
 
I got the impression that BH doesn't understand his father's work and KJA doesn't care. I might well be doing them both a disservice but I couldn't form any other conclusion given what they produced, which effectively took a massive dump on FH's legacy.
 
Honestly, I don't mind the BH/KJA books. They keep me entertained, mostly. I think the Jihad trilogy were the only books I was less than enthused with. The Butlerian Jihad itself was an okay book, but I lost attention with The Machine Crusade and The Battle of Corrin barely held my attention.

I will say. BH and KJA could use to tone it down with the graphic violence. It's not that I'm squeamish about that stuff, but reading about someone shitting their pants as their arms were pulled out of their sockets with the blood spraying all over the place is a bit much. I get the impression this seems to be a KJA thing and is very common in all his books, Dune, Star Wars, and his original fiction.
 
And if anyone else what's to go read it; fine! I truly hope you enjoy it. But please don't make out that they rest of us that do not share that opinion are being mindlessly critical, or trying to hold something to an impossible standard.
No where was that my implication. I would not accuse anyone of being mindless.
 
Wow, that does seem a bit excessive. Like you, I'm not that squeamish, but that just seems unnecessarily graphic, just for the hell of it.
 
One of the butlerian jihad books had a character with my name dying horribly near the start. This was after I'd been sending KJA questions for about 3 years from fans on the site I helped run.

I never found out if it was on purpose or a coincidence. My name is pretty common so it could be a legit coincidence.

I like to pretend it was on purpose though, for my own ego.

I think it's one of the few books to survive my house burning down as two days prior to the fire my ex had boxed all my dune books up and left them at a friends so I had them to read before the movie came out and she didn't know which ones I wanted and didn't want to just boxed all of them (I had been buying the house and Butlerian jihad hardcovers from clearance bins back in the day).
 
I've been tempted to give the BH/KJA books a try a few times, just to see if they are really that bad. The more I hear what people have to say about, the more I'm starting to think that yes they really are that bad.
 
I've been tempted to give the BH/KJA books a try a few times, just to see if they are really that bad. The more I hear what people have to say about, the more I'm starting to think that yes they really are that bad.
If you like Dune and you want more, I honestly think your time would be better spent checking out other works by Frank Herbert than with any pale imitations.
None of it is quite up the the level of Dune of course, but the Pandora/WorShip series and 'The Dosadi Experiment' are MILES better than anything KJA has ever written.
 
I didn't read much of the expanded novels apart from the first House series and a few pages of the Butlerian Jihad way back and all i can remember is that they can't hold a candle to the original.

I compare this to fast food vs. a real meal in a Michelin Star restaurant - both are considered food, both will fill you and sustain you but ultimately you know which is the better kind of food. However sometimes you just want a quick burger and fries just because and there's nothing wrong with it. Let everyone make up their own mind about the expanded universe books.
 
I think expecting the original is what led to my dissatisfaction with the sequel books.

One learns from his mistakes - whenever there is something very well done, be it a book, movie, music etc and there is a sequel or something that is based off i automatically reduce my expectations and so far it worked well. I am not too disappointed if it doesn't turn out as well as the original and sometimes pleasantly surprised when it's actually good.
 
Dune figures are out now

https://twitter.com/bryanedwardhill/status/1379974952737140739

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I've been defending the House Trilogy for 20 years now. I used to take my birthday money every year and go blow $20 on a hardcover as a teenager the day they came out. Yes, there are diminishing returns on every book, but the vitriol that is spewed is so bizarre. Brian Herbert is in his 70s and people still send him death threats.
 
Due to lockdown preventing me from celebrating NYE with anyone not in my household Paul, Duncan and I decided to have a bit of a party.

It was a bust.

Paul immediately locked himself in my spice cupboard and Duncan got smashed, leaving me to watch bad movies and build lego by myself all night.

I would have invited Jessica, but thought it would be weird to make Paul party with his mom and the last time Duncan drank around her it did not go well...

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Because for some reason I can never get the damn image to work I'm quote tweeting the one time I did
 
I've been defending the House Trilogy for 20 years now. I used to take my birthday money every year and go blow $20 on a hardcover as a teenager the day they came out. Yes, there are diminishing returns on every book, but the vitriol that is spewed is so bizarre. Brian Herbert is in his 70s and people still send him death threats.
People don't have to like the books but I will never understand the death threats.
 
I've been defending the House Trilogy for 20 years now. I used to take my birthday money every year and go blow $20 on a hardcover as a teenager the day they came out. Yes, there are diminishing returns on every book, but the vitriol that is spewed is so bizarre. Brian Herbert is in his 70s and people still send him death threats.
Like whatever you like. What you spend $20 on is up to you. If anyone is sending death threats to Brian Herbert, he should call the police.

One thing I find reprehensible about this entire NuDune situation is the dishonesty. I do not believe for one moment that the garbage KJA/BH wrote is in any way whatsoever based on any "notes" they may or may not have found in Frank Herbert's desk, garage, attic, or wherever else they claim to have found them, or in what form they claim to have found them in, or how many notes there were.

The story about the "notes" has kept changing over the years, depending on which interview you watch or listen to, or what they've said at conventions. You'd think that would be something they could keep straight, but they can't.

If they're done writing the books (as I heard after the last of the origins of the Bene Gesserit/Mentats/Navigators books were published), why don't they publish these so-called "notes"? There are scholars who would love to study anything Frank Herbert had to say about what his plans were for "Dune 7" and fans would definitely pay $$ for them (and KJA has never been shy about boasting about how much money he makes from these books, so why not make some more from the dedicated fans who have a scholarly take on their favorite authors?).

But... what we get is a shrug and a disingenuous "Oh, why would anybody be interested in those? It's not like there's much to see"... which flies in the face of before when we were told what a treasure trove of notes they'd found.

Another thing I find reprehensible is the attitude Kevin J. Anderson has toward people who don't like his writing. For a professional, he has a really thin skin when it comes to criticism. I don't care how many books of his were on the best-seller list of whatever... if his books bore me, if they annoy me, if I get the impression that he is talking down to the readers, if he appears to have the impression that he can ignore basic scientific principles such as conducting space battles in 3 dimensions rather than 2, or that you can't realistically conduct a STL space battle and have time pass at the same rate onboard the ships AND the planets and the readers would be unaware of this... that means he considers his readers to be stupid, and that is something no science fiction writer should ever do.

When called on such errors, a professional author should not resort to childish insults, calling such readers "Talifans."

I think the most reprehensible thing, though, beyond the inability to get the story straight about the notes, or insulting the readers critical of the books, is the blatant attempt to erase Frank Herbert's own voice from his own creation. Retconning certain details that were clearly established in Dune (Paul's birthplace, Duke Leto Atreides' life, the absolute taboo against thinking machines, the fact that the crossing to Arrakis being Paul's first time off-planet, Duncan Idaho's early military service with the Atreides) was unnecessary, and did not improve the books in which they were inserted.

The part in Paul of Dune in which it was flat-out stated that the novel Dune was no more than a propaganda piece written by Princess Irulan at Paul's orders to manipulate certain biographical facts and cement Paul's role as a messiah, and that therefore everything in Dune was wrong... that's the first time I have ever literally thrown a book across the room in sheer disgust. Two authors who already demonstrated in spades that they had no real understanding of the original six novels, proceed to inform the newer readers that the first novel was wrong in the first place?

That's blatantly saying, "Ignore everything Frank Herbert wrote. Only WE have written the REAL story."

As I used to say at Arrakeen forum: There can be only six. Six original novels by Frank Herbert, with the seventh sadly never finished. Add in the Dune Encyclopedia (which Herbert gave his blessing to, with the caveat that he might contradict some part of it in future novels, which of course he did by creating yet another Duncan Idaho ghola), and other Dune-related material written by Frank Herbert and published in other forms such as the poetry in Songs of Muad'Dib and the essay in Eye.

The rest is bad fanfic that got professionally published. And while I have nothing against fanfic (I write a lot of it myself, in a number of different genres and franchises), I despise bad fanfic that so blatantly disrespects its own source material.

Note that I have never once denigrated KJA's wife or family. I have never denigrated anyone in FH's family who was not involved in the HLP. I actually like Byron Merritt, when he's not so earnestly trying to tell me what a wonderful job KJA/BH did on their books (I realize that back then it was part of his job to convince people to like the nuDune books).

It can't be easy to have a situation where you really want to convince someone that you love the legacy his grandfather left, but be put in the position of having to defend books that try to erase that legacy.
 
They actually had a line in the books saying the original was all lies and only their stuff is the truth?
It's one thing if the original author decides to retcon things, but for someone else who came in after the author died to do that is pretty disrespect.
To quote the lead character from one of my favorite new shows:
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