DS9 Versus: A viewing experient

[Seven of Five]

Really enjoyed DS9's Occupation Arc, but the Worf/Alexander episode was a mis-step.

B5's end to the civil war arc has been a very strong few episodes and this excellent culmination is typical by now. It is a shame that we ended up going into season 5 without either Marcus or Ivanova onboard. The behind the scenes schenanigans were as epic as the onscreen ones, so it's would have been hard to predict the actual outcome.

 

[mattyhugh]

I was choked when Marcus died. The fact that Ivanova didn't come back for season 5 makes his sacrifice meaningless.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ Bloody hell. I thought I could read this thread and stay unspoiled on B5 by just skipping the parts about it - which I've managed (I already knew that

Spoiler: basic stuff about B5

Sinclair leaves at the end of season 1 and that there are some bad guys [?] called Shadows and a war)

until that last post.

 

[Sykonee]

I'm amazed anyone can get a lot out of this thread by skipping the B5 parts, considering B5 takes up over half of the posts.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Well I like Sons and Daughters! I'd even go so far as to say it's my favourite out of the three "Worf goes off on a Bird of Prey" episodes. I think I may be in a minority here, but I liked Alexander and most episodes involving him and I did care about what happened here. I also liked the stuff with Kira, Dukat and Ziyal a lot. It doesn't feel much like it's part of a story arc, but I still think it's a good episode.

That said, B5 wins big this week. Lots of action, but also excellent plot twists and some very good stuff for the characters. Sheridan's "We have come home!" speech is one of my favourite moments in B5. And there's a real punch in the gut at the end.

 

[mattyhugh]

^ Bloody hell. I thought I could read this thread and stay unspoiled on B5 by just skipping the parts about it - which I've managed (I already knew that

Spoiler: basic stuff about B5

Sinclair leaves at the end of season 1 and that there are some bad guys [?] called Shadows and a war)

until that last post.

Sorry

 

[Sykonee]

Week 8: (Ending 10.26.97)
DS9 - Behind The Lines (Airdate 10.20.97)
B5 - Rising Star (Airdate 10.23.97)

Whoa, hey! What's a Character Episode doing in the middle of a War Arc? Aren't these supposed to be all about moving plot, plot, and Major Plot? Sure, there's character moments to be had, but they play second-fiddle to the plot, which is above all important during a significant plot.

Oh, wait, Echevarria wrote this episode. Well, that explains that.

As usual, ol' René gives us a meaty Odo story, plus a surprisingly understated-yet-poignant Sisko story. Of course, the major Arc development here is Odo's "Sin Of Omission" plot twist, which wasn't really that big of a twist given the nature of his character. Somewhere, deep down, you had a sense he'd be swayed by the Founders at some point. Shame it had to come at this critical time though, huh.

B5, on the other hand, has a bunch of clean-up to do. As before, they take the time to dwell on the ramifications of Sheridan's insurrection, only this time don't saddle it with some kidnap plot. Nope, just a lot of talking, reflecting, talking, speechifying, reflecting, talking... Man, is there a lot of talking going on. (actually, there was a minor kidnap d-plot, tying up the Garibaldi/Lyse loose end; fortunately, it was kept minimal and deftly dealt with)

Rising Star's still the winner this week though. Behind The Lines, despite what happens to Rom, still feels like a lull; things'll probably pick up once we see Damar's plan come to form. B5, meanwhile, nicely wraps up a bunch of S4 threads, and seems intent on setting up new ones (Telepath War? Drakh War? Go on...!) for the next season, which should start in two weeks as-

Huh? What do you mean there's been a change of schedule? The S4 finale isn't for a while now, and S5 isn't 'till next year?? What's going on??

(somewhere, Behr smugly snickers...)

Weekly Winner
B5

Next:
DS9 - Favor The Bold
VOY - Scientific Method

 

[Kai Winn]

the s4 finale of b5? their version of 'these are the voyages...'? we can wait a little longer, i guess. no doubt ds9 will win next week, it's got a video-game style space battle, and a happy end, and some supernatural stuff. not bad, actually. I prefer 'scientific method' nonetheless, just because janeway is so good in that episode. she's a far more determined, powerful, and reckless personality than sisko. even without divine dna.

 

[Sykonee]

Week 9: (Ending 11.02.97)
DS9 - Favor The Bold (Airdate 10.27.97)
VOY - Scientific Method (Airdate 10.30.97)

Aww man. Now you just gotta love the fact that the (on screen) silent Morn is the one that gives Starfleet the Important Message (off screen). Who'd have ever thought the big lug would become such a pivotal person after seeing him lounging about at Quark's way back in S1? Then again, who'd have ever thought we'd get a cliffhanger such as this back in S1?

Favor The Bold does an excellent job in setting things up for the next episode. All the stakes are laid out for us to see, with everyone laying their cards on the table. We have to tune in next week to see who's got the stronger hand (or, erm, an ace up their sleeve). Meanwhile though, the writers don't forget to include some strong character moments too, keeping these huge events grounded for the layman. We're incredibly invested in the plot, because we're connected to these people - in some ways, moreso than even those in B5.

While all this is happening in the Alpha Quadrant, the crew of Voyager has been subjected to the props department of the Saw franchise, causing a series of... oh God, DNA mutations. Not... again...!

Frankly, despite some fun character moments and a creepy Alien Reveal, I pretty much tuned this episode out once Old Man Chakotay came about. I just. don't. care. about these kinds of episodes anymore - Genesis and Threshold totally ruined 'em for me.

DS9 thumps VOY this week, and unless VOY does something really epic next week, it's looking like back-to-back wins for The Sisko & Co. ( )

Weekly Winner
DS9

Next:
DS9 - Sacrifice Of Angels
VOY - Year Of Hell

 

[Vulcan Princess]

Next week is going to be a pretty good showdown. I could see it going either way.

 

[Eyes]

Why are Sacrifice of Angels and Year of Hell going against each other? Man, that's not fair.

Against almost any other Voyager episode, Sacrifice would come out top really easily, and I suppose against the majority of DS9 episodes so would Year of Hell.

I guess we'll see which Event Episode trumps the other.

 

[Seven of Five]

Year of Hell vs. Sacrifice of Angels

Whoever wins, everyone loses.

I have a bit of a guilty pleasure for Scientific Measure as Janeway is such a hardcore after being pushed to the max by whoever those alien dudes were that week. Not as good as Favor the Bold by any means, but a good bit of fluff.

 

[Kai Winn]

no question at all, year of hell is an imaginative story that holds it's own versus any of the 11 star trek movies, while sacrifice of angels is just another episode about that weird dominion war. nothing special.

 

[apenpaap]

I'd say they're pretty evenly matched. Both are really cool, epic episodes.

 

[Bones2]

I'd give it to Year of Hell, personally. Because of the deus ex machina of SoA.

 

[TheGodBen]

I'm going to wait for Sykonee to make his own judgement, then I'm going to claim that he's wrong no matter the outcome.

 

[apenpaap]

I'd give it to Year of Hell, personally. Because of the deus ex machina of SoA.

Both kind of had a deus ex machina ending. Though I suppose Year of Hell at least had an epic oneliner just before it.

 

[DevilEyes]

just another episode about that weird dominion war. nothing special.

It's really great to have the regular thread comic relief.

We're up for an epic battle. I prefer Sacrifice of Angels, but I can see it going either way.

I'd give it to Year of Hell, personally. Because of the deus ex machina of SoA.

How about the epic reset button of YoH?

 

[flemm]

The ending of Sacrifice of Angels is not a Deus ex machina. There is a "Deus" of course, but the Prophets do not arrive "ex machina." They have been characters in the unfolding plot since the pilot (as opposed to the Deus ex machina that arrives only to resolve the story in its concluding moments). Given their connection to Bajor, and given that they presumably created the "artificial" wormhole that is allowing the Dominion to threaten the Alpha Quadrant, their involvement is a logical and necessary plot development at this stage. Either the Prophets prevent the reinforcements from arriving, or they allow them safe passage: either way, they are responsible for what is about to happen. It is time for them to go ahead and "be gods," as Sisko puts it, i.e. assume responsibility for their role in the current conflict.

A safer solution would have been to simply allow Kira and Rom to prevent the minefield from being destroyed, but the Prophets' involvement is a more ambitious and satisfying choice in that it continues the Emissary storyline that has been ongoing since the pilot and was further developed in Destiny, Accession and Rapture.

 

[Harvey]

I'd give it to Year of Hell, personally. Because of the deus ex machina of SoA.

How about the epic reset button of YoH?

But that doesn't happen until the end of "Year of Hell, Part II," which won't air until the following week. Up solely against "Year of Hell, Part I," I'd say the two episodes are pretty evenly matched. I'd still give the win to "Sacrifice of the Angels," though. It has a terrific battle and a heartbreaking conclusion for Ziyal's character (which has an effect on Damar, Dukat, Kira, and Garak).