DS9 Versus: A viewing experient
- Thread starter Sykonee
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Little Green Men is the Ferengi at their best. The only Ferengi show that beat it was The Magnificent Ferengi.
Cold Fire was, meh... It had all that promise, and then ruined it by sideling Suspiria, and getting rid of the show's original planned ending. It makes the ending line of Caretaker so much less effective.
Cold Fire was, meh... It had all that promise, and then ruined it by sideling Suspiria, and getting rid of the show's original planned ending. It makes the ending line of Caretaker so much less effective.
What, might I ask, was the original ending of the show?
I know if the show had been canceled then the episode was created to allow them an out clause.
Sort of like a "Hey, Voyager, it's me, Susperia! I just came back from my subspace interdimensional realm and decided, because you showed mercy way back when, I'll send ya'll back on home now." type of deal, then?
According to Memory Alpha, the keepers of the 'secret' knowledge.
Edit: Added quote and link
Memory Alpha said:
Click Me
Week 12: (Ending 11.26.95)
DS9 - The Sword Of Kahless (Airdate 11.20.95)
VOY - Maneuvers (Airdate 11.20.95)
B5 - A Day In The Strife (Airdate 11.23.95)
Y'know, I have to say B5's "Station In Jeopardy" episodes grow tiresome after a while. I mean, sure, it's good stuff when it pertains to overall story arcs (The Fall Of Night, And Now For A Word, etc.), but in one-off situations like this, it feels redundant -chrissake, they just did it last week. And although a "Station In Jeopardy" plot should come across as an A-Plot, it doesn't at all in Strife -more like a B-Plot, or even C-Plot. The character stuff involving G'kar (again, yes), Franklin's growing stims problem, and even Vir's ambassadorial promotion were more interesting than the "oh noes! the station might get blowed up!" plot. If you're going to have a relatively event-free Character Episode, don't throw a "Station In Jeopardy" plot in there as well.
And when did VOY suddenly realize doing a proper Event Episode would be a good idea? Yeah, there's huge logic holes in Maneuvers, but at least the show felt like it had an actual purpose for a change, and that there are ramifications from these events. It's... my GOD! It's an actual story arc! And a rather entertaining one at that. Damn, but Seska makes for a good villain: someone who has a personal connection to a main character, and is clearly insidious enough to manipulate the Kazon into getting what she wants. Granted, it's a bit comic-bookish, but if it remains entertaining, I can live with it.
DS9? Eh, it was alright, but Sword Of Kahless is bringing up the rear this week. Having Kor in an episode always makes it watchable, but there was just a bit too much walking around and dull fight-scenes to really lift it any higher. I thought this was supposed to be an epic quest.
You know what? VOY gets the nod this week. B5 might have if it'd just focused on the character stuff, but the tensionless "Station In Jeopardy" plot really hampers the episode.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Our Man Bashir
VOY - Resistance
B5 - Passing Through Gethsemane
DS9 - The Sword Of Kahless (Airdate 11.20.95)
VOY - Maneuvers (Airdate 11.20.95)
B5 - A Day In The Strife (Airdate 11.23.95)
Y'know, I have to say B5's "Station In Jeopardy" episodes grow tiresome after a while. I mean, sure, it's good stuff when it pertains to overall story arcs (The Fall Of Night, And Now For A Word, etc.), but in one-off situations like this, it feels redundant -chrissake, they just did it last week. And although a "Station In Jeopardy" plot should come across as an A-Plot, it doesn't at all in Strife -more like a B-Plot, or even C-Plot. The character stuff involving G'kar (again, yes), Franklin's growing stims problem, and even Vir's ambassadorial promotion were more interesting than the "oh noes! the station might get blowed up!" plot. If you're going to have a relatively event-free Character Episode, don't throw a "Station In Jeopardy" plot in there as well.
And when did VOY suddenly realize doing a proper Event Episode would be a good idea? Yeah, there's huge logic holes in Maneuvers, but at least the show felt like it had an actual purpose for a change, and that there are ramifications from these events. It's... my GOD! It's an actual story arc! And a rather entertaining one at that. Damn, but Seska makes for a good villain: someone who has a personal connection to a main character, and is clearly insidious enough to manipulate the Kazon into getting what she wants. Granted, it's a bit comic-bookish, but if it remains entertaining, I can live with it.
DS9? Eh, it was alright, but Sword Of Kahless is bringing up the rear this week. Having Kor in an episode always makes it watchable, but there was just a bit too much walking around and dull fight-scenes to really lift it any higher. I thought this was supposed to be an epic quest.
You know what? VOY gets the nod this week. B5 might have if it'd just focused on the character stuff, but the tensionless "Station In Jeopardy" plot really hampers the episode.
Weekly Winner
VOY
Next:
DS9 - Our Man Bashir
VOY - Resistance
B5 - Passing Through Gethsemane
I'm not sure if I've seen Maneuvers, but I can easily accept that it wins, because neither B5 nor DS9 are on their game this time. A Day in the Strife, as well as having an awful title, felt unfocused to me. A bunch of stuff happens, but it's not that exiting and there's not much of a sense of urgency to it. As for Sword of Kahless, I think it's one of the worst episodes of Season 4. Even when DS9 isn't that good it usually manages to be interesting enough, but this episode just bored me. This Klingon thing is going nowhere fast and Worf doesn't feel like a worthwhile DS9 character yet. He'll get there in the end, but I do think they had trouble getting him to work in this context in Season 4.
Week 13: (Ending 12.03.95)
DS9 - Our Man Bashir (Airdate 11.27.95)
VOY - Resistance (Airdate 11.27.95)
B5 - Passing Through Gethsemane (Airdate 11.30.95)
What's this? DS9, bringing up the rear for the second week in a row? How is that even possible?
Well, when you have a fluff comedy episode stacked up against two tragic episodes, that's how.
Not that Our Man Bashir is bad -it's definitely good fun, with all the actors certainly enjoying a chance to ham things up and chew some scenery. And let's face it: it's much better than last year's comedy episode of the same time, Fascination (funny that DS9 would go into winter reruns with a comedy episode two years in a row now). However, it's also merely a quirky diversion, which simply can't compete against episodes that are far more intensely dramatic.
So, with VOY and B5 bringing the proper drama this week, who wins against these two? VOY, as solid of an outing as it was, unfortunately lacked B5's gut-punch of irony. Resistance was simply about character interaction and the tragedy that comes of it; whereas Gethsename had mystery and moral quandary to go along with its tragedy. Plus, B5 has a great Twilight Zone ending that sticks with you long after the episode ends. Can't say VOY managed that.
Thus, B5 takes this week. And now all the shows go into reruns. What, no solo time for anyone during the winter? Well, DS9 will be the first to return after the New Year. Perhaps it will regain some of the ground it lost going into reruns?
Weekly Winner
B5
Next:
DS9 - Homefront
DS9 - Our Man Bashir (Airdate 11.27.95)
VOY - Resistance (Airdate 11.27.95)
B5 - Passing Through Gethsemane (Airdate 11.30.95)
What's this? DS9, bringing up the rear for the second week in a row? How is that even possible?
Well, when you have a fluff comedy episode stacked up against two tragic episodes, that's how.Not that Our Man Bashir is bad -it's definitely good fun, with all the actors certainly enjoying a chance to ham things up and chew some scenery. And let's face it: it's much better than last year's comedy episode of the same time, Fascination (funny that DS9 would go into winter reruns with a comedy episode two years in a row now). However, it's also merely a quirky diversion, which simply can't compete against episodes that are far more intensely dramatic.
So, with VOY and B5 bringing the proper drama this week, who wins against these two? VOY, as solid of an outing as it was, unfortunately lacked B5's gut-punch of irony. Resistance was simply about character interaction and the tragedy that comes of it; whereas Gethsename had mystery and moral quandary to go along with its tragedy. Plus, B5 has a great Twilight Zone ending that sticks with you long after the episode ends. Can't say VOY managed that.
Thus, B5 takes this week. And now all the shows go into reruns. What, no solo time for anyone during the winter? Well, DS9 will be the first to return after the New Year. Perhaps it will regain some of the ground it lost going into reruns?
Weekly Winner
B5
Next:
DS9 - Homefront
Is Our Man Bashir, DS9's first Holodeck episode? I can't think of one before this. Anyway, I enjoyed it, lightweight though it was. Not as good as Fascination though!
Passing Through Gethsemane is much stronger however, and it's a real step up from B5's last couple of installments. I love Sheridan's face at the end and Brad Dourif is definitely one of my favourite guest stars.
Passing Through Gethsemane is much stronger however, and it's a real step up from B5's last couple of installments. I love Sheridan's face at the end and Brad Dourif is definitely one of my favourite guest stars.
Eh. I'd take "Our Man Bashir" over "Gethsemane" any day of the week. It may be 'fluff', but it's excellent entertainment with a tightly written script, a rather knowing parody of Bond cliches (even the score!) and best of all, Garak wryly deconstruing the secret agent fantasy. I didn't even mention Avery Brooks' stiffly hammy Dr. Noah.
Sure, "Gethsemane" is good and all but "Our Man Bashir" is as good as it comes for DS9 - it could take the stale and ludricously overdone holodeck malfunction episode and actually do something brilliant with it.
Sometimes the fact we're not laughing doesn't make something better than when we are, and yeah, this is one of those times, IMHO.
Sure, "Gethsemane" is good and all but "Our Man Bashir" is as good as it comes for DS9 - it could take the stale and ludricously overdone holodeck malfunction episode and actually do something brilliant with it.
Sometimes the fact we're not laughing doesn't make something better than when we are, and yeah, this is one of those times, IMHO.
Passing Through Gethsemane is one of the finest hours of television I've ever seen. I still cry whenever I watch it. I love the heavy metaphysical themes it raises.
What holds Our Man Bashir back -at least for me- is the fact it's mostly a strict parody of the Bond genre. Aside from the circumstances of the accident and the characters involved, there's very little about this episode that really makes it a DS9 episode. Even Garak's observational quips of the 'spy genre' aren't that far removed the sort of things we get from the Austin Powers movies.
DS9's best comedy episodes are the ones that tend to involve its own setting. Edit: Actually, that's true for a lot of Trek, which is probably why so many holodeck episodes kind of suck.
Heretic! Next thing you know you'll compare Garak in "Empok Nor" to a slasher or something!
Though seriously, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone get Garak and Austin Powers into the same sentence. Kudos, sir, kudos!
This is true. It's been a while, but I think my favourite DS9 comedy was probably "In the Cards"... but "Our Man" would definitely be up there.
Both Treks have strong episodes this week, and I love Our Man Bashir, even though I'm not a huge Bond fan. It is at the top of all the fun episodes of DS9 for me. It's not really the setting that makes it a fine episode, but the great interactions between Garak and Bashir, which is executed perfectly.
Resistance was more serious, and well, one of the best episodes in Season 2.
Resistance was more serious, and well, one of the best episodes in Season 2.
It's really surprising when you consider that DS9 is often regarded as the 'serious' Trek, whereas VOY tended to get tagged with the 'not so serious' association. It's like the scripts got flipped this week.
My only problem with Our Man Bashir is the lengths the writers went to explain what was going on - it was ridiculous. I personally think when an episode is as much fun as this one you don't need to get into the minutia of what's gone wrong.
I know a lot of nit picking Trek fans will be horrified at this thought - but frankly, when I see people saying they hate TNG's Inner Light because they don't buy the idea of the probe, I really wonder why they're even bothering to watch in the first place. This is not meant to be a reality television after all.
Anyways, Our Man Bashir IMO is vastly superior to the other two episodes.
I know a lot of nit picking Trek fans will be horrified at this thought - but frankly, when I see people saying they hate TNG's Inner Light because they don't buy the idea of the probe, I really wonder why they're even bothering to watch in the first place. This is not meant to be a reality television after all.
Anyways, Our Man Bashir IMO is vastly superior to the other two episodes.
Week 14: (Ending 01.01.96)
DS9 - Homefront (Airdate 01.01.96)
Looks like we're back to Sunday airdates again. Glancing ahead, VOY's going to be the same way too.
Anyhow, good episode all around. I never saw this first run but I do recall how when I did see it a few years later how I actually thought that, maybe, old Joseph was a Changeling. I effectively bought into the paranoia the episode set up and, although it kind of loses it with hindsight, it doesn't lessen the impact of the story. Ultimately, another great first-parter from DS9. Let's just hope we get a solid follow-up like The Die Is Cast, and not a The Search, Part II. (
)
Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
DS9 - Paradise Lost
DS9 - Homefront (Airdate 01.01.96)
Looks like we're back to Sunday airdates again. Glancing ahead, VOY's going to be the same way too.
Anyhow, good episode all around. I never saw this first run but I do recall how when I did see it a few years later how I actually thought that, maybe, old Joseph was a Changeling. I effectively bought into the paranoia the episode set up and, although it kind of loses it with hindsight, it doesn't lessen the impact of the story. Ultimately, another great first-parter from DS9. Let's just hope we get a solid follow-up like The Die Is Cast, and not a The Search, Part II. (
)Weekly Winner
DS9
Next:
DS9 - Paradise Lost
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