DS9 on blu ray?
- Thread starter borgboy
- Start date
It's an ex-television series. It has ceased to be.
drugs
It's expired and gone to meet 'is maker.
I'm empathic
TOS was popular in its original run as well. If TOS had syndication, then the other shows have Netflix. They've been on there for like 7 years now. Enterprise has certainly risen in popularity. I would say likewise for DS9 and Voyager. They've since been added to other popular streaming services.
And yes, discovery has most likely already contributed to greater interest in the currently streaming shows. If it becomes a hit series, this will increase all the more.
So with all that, there is room for some hope. I personally couldn't care less if they're remastered or not. I don't think I own any Blu-Rays period, and while I have a nice new TV and BR player, I still have a VHS player hooked up to it as well.
Stats would be contingent on knowing a number of factors, which might be impossible to obtain.
Personally, I watched the show when it first aired and pretty much became a concrete fan during season 4. But seasons 1 through 3 were pretty much "meh". Even then, I didn't care to revisit old seasons back then. Only recently, 25 some years later, did I sit through season 1 onward, and finding a lot more to enjoy from the same episodes now compared to back then. Some are still imperfect but personal maturity is one reason for the change.
I'm likely not the only one to feel that way, and I imagine some people have never heard of the franchise but got told, tried a few episodes, and enjoyed them enough to become fans - casual or otherwise.
DS9 re-release DVD sales can only suggest so much, unfortunately, but I did buy the re-release while not bothering with the original releases.
While still expensive to remaster fully, with the number of CGI assets that still exist and can be transferable/imported to a new rendering engine, that alone is a huge cost savings. Only what remains, apart from the usual phaser blasts, are the more complex CGI/live action melded scenes of the sort that were clearly not done in TNG. Such as anything to do with Odo shapeshifting and that's where costs creep back up - and would take time to create new morphing assets, which could arguably take more time to do than importing and re-rendering the battle scenes.
Unfortunately, the cost is high and might be more of a gamble compared to TNG. Then again, times change. In today's environment it's pretty clear DS9 has dated better than the rest, with articles in the last 3 or 4 years citing many reasons how DS9 is the best Trek of the bunch. and, either way, streaming sales would pick up the slack and costs would eventually be met. I'd rather think positively, even though chances for this project to happen to every episode seems... slim.
All the TV distance/size calculators that show the technical benefit of 4K sets readily explain why TNG was remastered in 1080P. 4K does pretty much nothing unless you have a 200" screen inside a McMansion's living room large enough for another McMansion. Please forgive the hyperbole for intended comedic effect... But by then, anything 480i would really look bad and 1080P would still be quite passable and 6K or higher will never truly hit home markets, for reasons of resolution or distance, though for football games on a 1000" screen from x but not z feet away - that's where it would look better... I'm amazed at what certain brand/model 1080P sets can do to improve image quality, which only goes so far - especially regarding deinterlacing...
It was cancelled. Twice.
Syndication and Netflix are two different things. One was to fill holes in programming and required some sort of rating to justify the cost and to sell ads on. The other is a modern Blockbuster where Netflix pays the same fee for a 20 year old show regardless of who watches it.
So is Cheers. I don't know this but, Paramount might be giving it away in order to carry some other programming.
If you were so inclined you could order Ishtar on DVD from Netflix. The fact they offer it doesn't mean it's popular.
Based on all those Enterprise fan groups I see popping on up Myspace?
You're basing your assertion on data that doesn't exist.
If the nuMovies increased demand to the point where TNG -by comparison - cheap and easy process wasn't worth while, how successful is Discovery going to have to be to make a show watched by fewer people suddenly worth the time or money?
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
Well, I think it's clear who's cup is half empty and who's is half full around here.
I'm not holding my breath, but Trek is a strong enough brand that it's possible DS9 will get a remaster at some point, although we may never see physical discs available. Certainly doing the work will get cheaper as time passes - it's just a question of whether the show retains enough popularity (or somehow finds new audiences).
I'm not holding my breath, but Trek is a strong enough brand that it's possible DS9 will get a remaster at some point, although we may never see physical discs available. Certainly doing the work will get cheaper as time passes - it's just a question of whether the show retains enough popularity (or somehow finds new audiences).
What is your point? It wasn't canceled because of viewership ratings, at least the first time before it was changed to air at 10pm. NBC just wanted it gone for reasons not quite known. And what is the relevance?
Are you okay? You're obviously very passionate about Star Trek not gaining popularity?
Netflix is a fitting comparison in the last decade, to syndication in the 70's. It's making available older shows that are off the air-to now be accessible to the public. Star trek shows are popular on Netflix. Netflix has been making agreements with CBS over the last 7 or 8 years to get more series into ever more countries. Now they want a new series. Les Moonves said "They(Netflix) wanted a new Star Trek series. They wanted it badly, and offered us a lot of money."
There are other factors that could be leading people back into 90's Trek, like the super popular "Orange is the New Black."
I see people constantly online talking about how they just got back into this Trek or that, or are seeing this or that for the first time and love it.
But for all those people out there hoping for more remastered Trek, they're very lucky to have you here to drag them back down to the cynical reality of radical pessimism.
I understand what you're saying, but the syndication market in the seventies is totally different to Netflix, it's almost laughable to compare them.
There were, what, three network channels in the seventies, plus maybe local affiliates? I'm not 100% on the US market.
The point is there was only a finite selection then, so TOS when rerun was one of just half a dozen options at any one time. With Netflix, DS9 is just one of thousands of choices on Netflix alone. Plus Amazon, Hulu, a dozen more platforms around the world, plus broadcast TV, cable, satellite, games, etc.
The entertainment world has been transformed and Discovery is going to have to work hard to flourish with such competition. DS9 is, and will remain, a niche choice. I hope Discovery is a big hit and it acts as a gateway to the other shows, that would be great. But we're a long way from that being enough to justify a full remaster.
There were, what, three network channels in the seventies, plus maybe local affiliates? I'm not 100% on the US market.
The point is there was only a finite selection then, so TOS when rerun was one of just half a dozen options at any one time. With Netflix, DS9 is just one of thousands of choices on Netflix alone. Plus Amazon, Hulu, a dozen more platforms around the world, plus broadcast TV, cable, satellite, games, etc.
The entertainment world has been transformed and Discovery is going to have to work hard to flourish with such competition. DS9 is, and will remain, a niche choice. I hope Discovery is a big hit and it acts as a gateway to the other shows, that would be great. But we're a long way from that being enough to justify a full remaster.
One thing I think DS9 has in it's favor of every getting a Blu Ray update is that it's part of a brand. That alone will make sure it's never completely forgotten as long as Trek stays popular and part of the culture. It's one of the reasons why I think their will always be a market for Trek shows/movies on disks even when everything else is just on streaming. It's something people value more than just random tv shows. Plus it just seems logical that tech will improve and make it cheaper to do.
Jason
Jason
I don't disagree with the resolution issue and practical viewing distances from screens. I bought a 1080p projector when I could have gone 4K (and above 80", there is a visible difference--though it's rather marginal until 100", which is a common size in a dedicated cinema room like mine). However, none of this changes the fact that TV manufacturers are moving to 4K for anything 40" and above (except for a few very low end brands). And remaining 1080p models are stripped of the good video processing and other performance qualities--especially things that improve contrast and black levels. Moreover, the most important development is not resolution but HDR--and no one is making a 1080p set with HDR. A very close second is the wider colour gamut available on 4K sets and NOT on 1080p sets. HDR could be abused (not all releases benefit from it and it can be gimmicky, like early stereo sometimes was) but the benefits of the wider colour gamut are readily visible even at sizes where 4K resolution is irrelevant. But only 4K sets are getting those improvements. C'est la vie.
While @Squiggy's GIGO comment is absolutely correct regarding the information content of upscaling SD relative to a rescan of the film elements and I understand perfectly well why he was so dismissive, there exist advanced algorithms for upscaling that can artificially improve the sharpness and colour depth of the video. The missing information is constructed by using more complex techniques than simple real-time interpolation between adjacent pixels that TV sets or broadcasters typically use - such as using information from several consecutive frames or from different parts of the same frame that have similar properties - there are also potentially fractal and maximum entropy based methods. All a massive fudge but I'd settle for something that isn't so damn blurry that I think I need new spectacles when I watch DS9 on an HD or UHD TV.
The expense in rescanning film or creating new cgi is labour. The processes involved in selecting, processing and editing are such that humans seem unlikely to be replaced in the loop for many years to come - unless someone is already working on a generic automated process for recussitating old TV shows.
That seems very doubtful - most investment is aimed at producing completely new versions of old shows - hence we get Discovery. So, it seems to me, it's time for us to move on from vain hopes of ever seeing DS9 in HD. The same or similar stories will effectively told clad in new skins so perhaps we should direct our attention at those.
The expense in rescanning film or creating new cgi is labour. The processes involved in selecting, processing and editing are such that humans seem unlikely to be replaced in the loop for many years to come - unless someone is already working on a generic automated process for recussitating old TV shows.
That seems very doubtful - most investment is aimed at producing completely new versions of old shows - hence we get Discovery. So, it seems to me, it's time for us to move on from vain hopes of ever seeing DS9 in HD. The same or similar stories will effectively told clad in new skins so perhaps we should direct our attention at those.
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It was ABC, NBC, and CBS at the time (PBS doesn't count here). Those local affiliates were all attached to one of those 3 networks and some larger cities had a 4th or 5th independent channel. There also was no home media or cable yet so if you didn't like one of those three options, you were out of luck.
I'm not sure you know what x265 is if you're making statements like that. x265 is HEVC (High-Efficiency Video Codec), the codec for 4K video used in 4K UltraHD Blu-Ray, the highest quality available on the consumer market. It is also used by many streaming services because it is capable of variable compression, adjusting to available bandwidth, and It is twice as efficient as x264 (aka AVC or Advanced Video Codec, which was the final Blu-Ray standard). Yes, 20-30 mb/s is significantly less than the 100 max for physical media but it's a much better ratio than the 2-3mb/s for early HD streaming was compared to the 30mb/s on a Blu-Ray.
How do you know that CBS didn't make money from TNG? Their last statement was over 4 years ago. You're going by ancient knowledge.
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Others have already answered this. Because if you make money on something, you do it again where you can.
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