DS9 on blu ray?
- Thread starter borgboy
- Start date
It's been said by plenty of us plenty of times that it'll be far more likely to get half-decent HD remasters for streaming purposes than top-notch BDs like TNG got. They will have to do it at some point or their intellectual property becomes next to useless (no broadcaster or streaming service will pay much for SD content moving forward, unless it's a classic like Fawlty Towers or something), the only real question is when and how good it'll be. There could be disappointing answers to both.
There is certainly some truth in this. On reflection, it definitely seems to me that CBS failed to anticipate the extent to which streaming has now taken hold of the consumer market..... everybody knew it was coming, but it's come much quicker than perhaps anybody realised.
A recent DVD order I got from Amazon UK contained leaflets encouraging me to sign up to their streaming service, which more or less shows us how they're doing business.
I agree.
The thing that makes me laugh is, there are a lot of fans on here who are like, "The lighting in Generations was great, why couldn't we have seen them do that on TV?".
But we *did*. The lighting seen in TNG seasons one and two wasn't a million miles from how they lit those same sets in Generations.
It's all about the composition of the backgrounds versus the way the actors are lit for their close-ups. That's where seasons one and two, and Generations, share a common style.
I would always crack up because it didn't matter if it was a heavy-handed drama episode or a comedy episode, as soon as it faded out to commercial, it would play super-dramatic music
Maybe it was more of a budgetary decision than a creative one. The first few post-pilot episodes of TOS ("The Man Trap" for example) had the same sort of noiry, chiaroscuro lighting. Very beautiful. But they soon found those complicated lighting setups took too much time (and therefore money). Wouldn't surprise me if that was the issue they ran into on TNG also.
Oh... shit.
Not a surprise I guess, the remaster was excellent, but with the original cost of the DVDs so high, asking everyone to punt again for the same content, however spiffy it looks, was always going to be a hard sell.
And just taking those 1.5 million likes on Facebook... if every single one of those people simply picked a TNG standalone of their choice, like BOBW or AGT and bought it at Amazon for $15, that would gross $22.5 million for the project, and suddenly CBS would have 22.5 million reasons to go ahead with DS9-R.
If only there were some way to get the word out... I don't know, some sort of social network kind of thing they could use to do that...
I had an instinctual feeling that there wouldn't be DS9 blu-rays when there was no word from CBS on future projects after the release of the last season of TNG.
I think it's, well, horrifying that there might be a day when shows that can't be converted because of cost and market will be lost. I have the Classic Doctor Who which, with the exception of Spearhead from Space, had not been converted.
I think it's, well, horrifying that there might be a day when shows that can't be converted because of cost and market will be lost. I have the Classic Doctor Who which, with the exception of Spearhead from Space, had not been converted.
^ The classic Doctor Who is a different sort of example.
'Spearhead From Space' exists on film. It's not difficult to go back to that and simply extract a higher definition copy.
Because most of the show was shot on standard video tape, and even the vast majority of it's film segments (location shooting) are lost to time, then the process of converting the whole of the show and releasing it on Blu Ray would effectively be a matter of 'Let's take the standard definition product and just use the extra capacity of Blu Ray discs to cram more stories on each single disc'.
That's a viable option, certainly from the shelf space saving perspective, but it's not going to be any quantifiable leap up from the DVDs.
The work done one Next Generation was phenomenal. Everybody has acknowledged what an amazing technical feat has been achieved. But all of that is because they had the original film elements to go back to. With the exception of 'Spearhead From Space', there's no other story in Doctor Who for which that applies.
The bigger problem, as we've been discussing, is that in the three years since TNG-R first started being released on Blu Ray, the market has shifted inexorably away from physical disc media.
I'm not a fan of that trend, but I can't deny anymore that it exists. Nor can I dispute that it may have made some impact on the Blu Ray boxset sales of TNG dipping in numbers, and certainly that it would affect future Trek releases to any sort of physical home media. If the market for Blu Ray discs has dropped that significantly, then CBS are more likely (if anything) to gear future Trek releases solely towards the online streaming market. There might be some kind of home media release, but the amount of restoration (and cost) that went into TNG would not be a factor, because online streaming doesn't require as much technical improvement anyway, and the basic HD remasters would be 'good enough' for digital syndication broadcast as well.
We can't really blame CBS for failing to project that change happening as quickly as it has. But the reality is that TNG-R may have simply been released too late. A mere few years earlier and it might have been a very different story.....
For similar reasons, I doubt the rest of classic Doctor Who will ever see the light of day on Blu Ray disc. That ship has already sailed.
'Spearhead From Space' exists on film. It's not difficult to go back to that and simply extract a higher definition copy.
Because most of the show was shot on standard video tape, and even the vast majority of it's film segments (location shooting) are lost to time, then the process of converting the whole of the show and releasing it on Blu Ray would effectively be a matter of 'Let's take the standard definition product and just use the extra capacity of Blu Ray discs to cram more stories on each single disc'.
That's a viable option, certainly from the shelf space saving perspective, but it's not going to be any quantifiable leap up from the DVDs.
The work done one Next Generation was phenomenal. Everybody has acknowledged what an amazing technical feat has been achieved. But all of that is because they had the original film elements to go back to. With the exception of 'Spearhead From Space', there's no other story in Doctor Who for which that applies.
The bigger problem, as we've been discussing, is that in the three years since TNG-R first started being released on Blu Ray, the market has shifted inexorably away from physical disc media.
I'm not a fan of that trend, but I can't deny anymore that it exists. Nor can I dispute that it may have made some impact on the Blu Ray boxset sales of TNG dipping in numbers, and certainly that it would affect future Trek releases to any sort of physical home media. If the market for Blu Ray discs has dropped that significantly, then CBS are more likely (if anything) to gear future Trek releases solely towards the online streaming market. There might be some kind of home media release, but the amount of restoration (and cost) that went into TNG would not be a factor, because online streaming doesn't require as much technical improvement anyway, and the basic HD remasters would be 'good enough' for digital syndication broadcast as well.
We can't really blame CBS for failing to project that change happening as quickly as it has. But the reality is that TNG-R may have simply been released too late. A mere few years earlier and it might have been a very different story.....
For similar reasons, I doubt the rest of classic Doctor Who will ever see the light of day on Blu Ray disc. That ship has already sailed.
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More like $5-$7 million at best, after the retailer's cut, manufacturing costs, and residuals for the creators.
Well, I stuck to the gross revenue for simplicity sake, but what I mean is that the unit sales suddenly going up 10,000% would certainly get the notice of CBS. I probably should have just phrased it that way instead.
Honestly, I have no way of verifying the amount you mention. Though, residuals (negotiated by unions back in the 80s before anyone understood how lucrative home video would become) and manufacturing costs (very inexpensive to manufacture a Blu-Ray disc, especially in large volumes) probably don't add up to much more than a couple million dollars (out of $22.5 million). As for the retailer's cut, it seems to me that a blu-ray disc priced at $15 isn't really much more than a loss-leader for the retailer.
But again, I don't have specific information about what kind of actual profit they'd be making if my scenario actually happened.
CBS can't and won't see past the end of next week. I'm afraid there's nothing anyone can do about that. It seems to be a given that both DS9 and Voyager will be gone forever when the original film degrades or is conveniently thrown out. That's approximately 364 episodes at approx $1m production cost per episode, and the tight fisted bastards won't spend. . .well, let's push the envelope out to get the job done properly. . $60m to save them for eternity.
Assuming $10 for a movie ticket, if everyone who paid to watch that steaming pile of dump Into Darkness at the cinema, gave $1.50 to CBS, CBS would have more than enough money to remaster DS9 and Voyager.
Many years ago, I briefly worked for a UK DVD supplier.
Average cost of a new release DVD to a high volume selling high street retailer was about £2.50. Retailer was then selling that disc for £12 or £13. Smaller independents were paying £3.50-£4.
However, the real money was in box sets. I think the TNG DVD seasons cost retailers about £15 each from the supplier. They were then sold for £60.
Why the constant need to bash Star Trek Into Darkness? It really has nothing to do with this discussion.
I'd just like to say that while I'm interested in seeing TNG, DS9, and VOY all in HD, I don't make enough money to justify purchasing 21, or even seven, season sets. Purchasing even one makes me feel guilty. I need every dollar I earn, I don't have a lot of disposable income, and won't buy season sets until this situation changes.
It's great that all these sets are being released but they're out of step with the fact that we've been in (or are recovering from, if you want to debate the semantics) a Recession (at least in America).
So, the only way I'm watching any of these in HD is on Amazon, with my Amazon Prime account, which isn't going to cost me several hundred or a couple thousand dollars, depending on if I buy one series or all three of the middle/'90s/24th Century series.
Not everyone's situation is like mine but I think CBS/Paramount/Whoever would sell more Blu-Rays at cheaper prices.
I'm not that hardcore so my love of the multiple series isn't going to be so intense that it overrides any sense of being responsible with my finances.
I can't be the only one who feels this way.
It's great that all these sets are being released but they're out of step with the fact that we've been in (or are recovering from, if you want to debate the semantics) a Recession (at least in America).
So, the only way I'm watching any of these in HD is on Amazon, with my Amazon Prime account, which isn't going to cost me several hundred or a couple thousand dollars, depending on if I buy one series or all three of the middle/'90s/24th Century series.
Not everyone's situation is like mine but I think CBS/Paramount/Whoever would sell more Blu-Rays at cheaper prices.
I'm not that hardcore so my love of the multiple series isn't going to be so intense that it overrides any sense of being responsible with my finances.
I can't be the only one who feels this way.
You're not. As I said a few posts back, those that knew about TNG Blu, who wanted it, and who could afford it, bought it. There will undoubtedly be a lot of people who would've liked the sets but simply couldn't afford them.
I've no idea how the economics would work out in reality, but assuming demand would increase at a much lower price point, I don't see why CBS can't cut out the retailers and sell these sets direct to the public. If the TNG BR sets had been available for $25 direct from CBS at the start, CBS would've sold a lot more units.
I know studios have sold series boxsets direct to fans before with what amounted to crowd funding, so the idea isn't unprecedented.
How bad/good is the quality if I re-purchase the DS9 DVD's and watch them on a Blu-ray player on a 50" screen? This discussion has certainly whet my appetite for introducing my other half to this great show. But I'm resigned to it never getting the TNG treatment.
Time to stop talking in circles about what we might have had and instead focus on what we've got.
Time to stop talking in circles about what we might have had and instead focus on what we've got.
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