Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by borgboy, Nov 28, 2013.
Ah, okay. I misunderstood.
That's not quite what I meant. I wasn't implying that they'd only put out one season per year. I was implying that CBS would need to decide whether DS9 was worth remastering at all, and that wouldn't happen until all of TNG was done and the results of all the sales were tallied. That's still a few years off, IMHO. And if CBS did decide to remaster DS9, there probably wouldn't be as much of a rush to do it as there was for TNG, since TNG was far more popular than DS9 or VOY. Plus, once they do start the remastering process, it will take much longer than TNG to do, as DS9 was far more CGI FX-heavy than TNG ever was.
Thanks for that link (although I had already seen it before). The HD remaster of the Honshu footage only proves my point. While detailed, the HD render looks so cartoony and fake to me that there's no way CBS would approve that.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong. I don't work for CBS, so I'm not privy to their business decisions. But my bet is that if DS9 gets remastered, they will have to recreate all the CGI. Once they get to the fleet scenes in S6 and 7, my guess is that despite was Rob Bonchune says now, they will need to recreate all the ships. But again, that's just my opinion, as I'm not a graphic designer.
My original point to all of this is that if the fleet scenes get entirely redone, I'm hoping there will be a bit more variety with the ships, and not just a straight recreation of the original scenes. Originally, the use of the eight classes of Starfleet ships were done out of necessity (The Enterprise-D, Defiant, and Greg Jein's new Excelsior physical models were intact enough to scan into CGI, and the three First Contact meshes plus the Miranda class also made for FC were given to CBS, and that now-cartoon-looking Nebula class CGI in the above link originally made for VOY was also used). Now, there'd be no necessity to use strictly those designs. If they have the time and inclination, they could come up with new ships, or even create older ships that didn't have a lot of screen time, like the Ambassador class.
All of TNG will be done by the end of this year, so it can't be that much longer.
It's not just about Blu-ray sales, but TV sales. TNG HD was airing in the UK not long after the first season came out on blu-ray. With more and more HD channels, the broadcaster needs HD material, true DSN might not earn as much as TNG but it would no doubt still sell.
As for the link, I might be mistaken but I was under the impression that wasn't a final render, just for lack of a better term a quick HD render of the orginal CGI model to demonstrate that it had enough detail for HD. Obvioulsty a fiull render would add other effects.
I would love to see DS9 on blu ray it was my favorite star trek show.
Why couldn't they do this 'recreation' of ships in CGI for TNG?
Because TNG used physical models and the original film was available, so they restored it and it still looks great, there was no reason to replace it with CGI in most cases.
There are a few places where CG was originally used, but the files didn't exist or didn't hold up, so they then had to recreate the CG (the Crystaline entity, for example).
There were other places where the filmed footage was lost or damaged (one of the frequently used stock flybys and a highly publicized shot from Unification, for example), which they did replace with a new CG shot.
I'd much rather they keep all of the "bugs" in the effects shots.
I'm sick of the previous remastering efforts essentially destroying history, even in the case of TNG-R, as there is no reason that CG needs to replace the 6 or 4-footer models in any capacity.
To be fair, I can give TNG-R some leeway in fixing honest VFX errors given that Season 1 was handled by the same people who made it in '87.
Replacing models with CG isn't remastering. That's a "special edition". I want to see the dark-neck, texture errored Venture Galaxies in DS9.
You've seen TOS-R, right?
Snark aside, DS9's fleet scenes always looked that "cartoony" because that was pretty state-of-the-art for TV CGI.
When the original film elements are missing, you can either upscale or create new elements. I don't have any problem with what they've done with the HD versions of Star Trek: The Next Generation (with the exception of season two, which was a mess for various reasons).
Agreed, they haven't "replaced" any shots, unless it was absolutely necessary. The only exception being the phaser-torpedo shot from Darmok, which was a big request from the fanbase and a known production mistake.
There's also a CG enterprise that's so good you don't even realise it's CG until people point it out to you.
I wonder when they made that CG Galaxy class they had half a thought about "well, we're going to need this a lot for the fleet battles of DS9 too"
Aside from the defiant it's usually the Galaxy that's the workhorse of the fleet (With a few Excelsiors and Mirandas dotted around)
When it comes to "Sacrifice of Angels" I hope they make it specifically clear if one of the Klingon Birds of Prey supporting the Defiant in the final CGI scene actually does shoot its fellow BOP causing it to crash kamakazie style into the giant dominion ship and making it explode, or the weapons fire that takes down the BOP is actually from somewhere else.
If you look at the ep as it stands atm, that's not exactly clear.
No reason at all? None? So instead of the "parking" shot in Unification, you'd be happier with a blank screen or an upscaled shot from the DVD? Come on now.
There hasn't been any CGI used in TNG-R that's just there to be there. It's only been used to replace effects footage that was unusable.
Doesn't matter. I want TNG remastered, not TNG Special Edition. Again, if all the seasons were made in one go (and I'd be happy with an annual release of season packs), they'd likely have found that "lost" footage of the D that they replaced with CG in Season 1.
And I want the writers ideas and imaginations not be limited by 1980s effects houses.
What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander
Spoilers: They fixed the awful FX goof in season 5 where the Enterprise fires it's phasers from the Torpedo tube.
Try not to have a fit of rage.
Recreating a shot in HD to match the old shot which can't be found is hardly a re-imagining of TNG. Let's keep things in perspective here.
I think it's pretty incredible that they've been able to recreate the show so faithfully and been able to find almost all the shots.
Actually, what I have seen of TOS-R, I like. There was some cartoony-looking CGI in some early remastered episodes, but it's my understanding that those particular instances CBS was not happy with the finished product and the later stuff was never that bad.
And that was why I mentioned that the fleet scenes would most likely have to be completely redone. I'm just hoping that there will be a bit more variety with the ships, is all.
As I recall, the change they made was to make the new enterprise was due to the model being too detailed and was taking too long to render (remember this was in 2006), so they had to simplify the model.
Actually -- and this is an important distinction -- TOS was actually remastered, meaning the film master -- original FX and all -- were simply transferred to HD. The new FX are merely optional additions that have nothing whatsoever to do with the remaster. The remaster was finished once the transfer was done, before any CGI was added.
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