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DS9 Fans: The Bane of Our Very Existence - Part 9,782

Wouldn't be great if the Vidiians have got some of the crew now and then, AND gotten away with it.

I like it when Janeway gets pissy, and this would be pissy with context.

Besides, how many lost and mutilated crewmen would have to have been taken and gutted before janeway "declared war" on these people, just like she claimed she'd kill any of them if she saw another one of their ships ever again after their first encounter?

Imagine if Scientific method was with the Vidiians instead of the dickheads we never saw again?
 
Wouldn't be great if the Vidiians have got some of the crew now and then, AND gotten away with it.

I like it when Janeway gets pissy, and this would be pissy with context.

Besides, how many lost and mutilated crewmen would have to have been taken and gutted before janeway "declared war" on these people, just like she claimed she'd kill any of them if she saw another one of their ships ever again after their first encounter?

Imagine if Scientific method was with the Vidiians instead of the dickheads we never saw again?
Not a bad idea.

"Scientific Method" might have worked that way. It would make some sense that people desperate for a cure & organs wouldn't stay within their own space. After so many years with the illness, they'd branch out looking for a cure or more organs. Seeing the Vidiians so far from their space also might make seeing Talaxians across the quad. more legit too.
 
It would be good continuity and character development, but the haters would still think it would be dumb to see the Vidiians again and say that Janeway just wasn't tough enough to handle crew death.
 
:rolleyes: ^ Is there any way to stop Anwar from using a Conditional Sentence Type II in any of this posts, ever again? There is obviously no hope that he'll ever realize that they don't make a legitimate argument and that, to have an argument, he needs to respond to what people actually say, rather than what he thinks they would say in a hypothetical situation. (A Minority Report-debate?) I think what needs to be done is A Clockwork Orange-type behaviorist therapy that would result in him being physically unable to write the word "would" any time he tried to. :rommie:
 
I'd be more interested in stopping him from willfully ignoring things that prove him wrong and blithely continuing to say the same things that were proven wrong less than 10 posts previously. :vulcan:
 
Get this through your head, Its not always the aliens that suck its how they are used.

And I'm saying that given the hatred that permeates the fandom that it never mattered how the aliens were used nothing would have been good enough for the haters.

Have you actually spoken to any Star Trek fans lately? I've not met anyone who hates Voyager and everything to do with it, in fact every Star Trek fan I've ever spoken to enjoys the series. Sure they have one or two quibbles, but they do with every series of trek. Are you creating fans we've never met? Or did you build some kind of compound where you trained everyone to hate Voyager so you could rant at us more?

You honestly expect us to believe that there are fans that hate the Viidians because they are UGLY? I mean, have you seen the borg? I'm calling BS on this.
The Borg aren't that ugly, they aren't patchwork creations like the Vidiians.


That's partially the point of this argument: That the haters are SO biased that if you take something despised out of the despised series and put it into a well-liked one (which changing NOTHING about the specific thing) the haters suddenly become lovers. That writing doesn't matter, it's just what show you're on. Inequality enforced by favoritism.

Like I said, it all depends on what show you're on. That ensures the result, not the presentation or writing.

No, and they'd be despised for being a B&B creation and thus unworthy of existence. Even if the writing was on par with "The Jem'Hadar".

And when VOY tried to do the same with its' villains all they got was hash criticisms and the innate stupidity of recurring villains.

If you're telling me the Borg aren't ugly then I think that proves there's something wrong with you. Are you telling me that some guy with an electric whisk poking out of his face is pleasing to look at? I actually laughed at that. "Ugly" is a subjective concept though, and you seem to have a huge problem with those, you'll be telling us what we all find ugly or don't next, much like you're telling us what we do or don't like - something I strongly object to.

Let me point this one out again in black and white. Voyager isn't despised. I'm sure you'll ignore that like you ignored everything else so here it is again. Voyager isn't despised. The nature of Voyager itself makes the idea of recurring villains difficult. They need a reason to follow Voyager, which is moving as fast as it can through the Delta Quadrant, and so they all would need a grudge to be able to stay in the series.

Transplanting the Vidiians into DS9 would have changed EVERYTHING, not NOTHING, as they would have permanently been within a fixed distance of the station, which itself wouldn't have flown off. Transplanting the Dominion into Voyager could have made for an outstanding story arc. Let me point out the Hirogen, who were in but a few Voyager episodes, but are in my opinion one of the most memorable trek races out there. And that's coming from a DS9 fan. I'll say it right here, I would worry for a Dominion Battleship if it came up against a Venatic Hunter, the Hirogen seem to be a lot stronger.

Conversely, transplant the Vidians to the Gamma Quadrant, and focus on their plight as a civilization, examine how it collapsed, the impact that its had on the GQ, play up their desperation and do that over several years, and the Vidiians become one of the great races in Star Trek.

Mostly due to being on DS9 and not VOY. That whole paragraph of yours is a two-parter in DS9 after which they are rarely heard from again and the Vidiians ARE one of Trek's best. Because it's DS9.

No, you're BSing again. The Karemma were in precisely 2 episodes of DS9 and they're crap. The Dosi were in 1. Crap. If the Vidiians had been in 2 eps of DS9 they would have been...crap. They were developed well in Voyager to the point where I was relieved that Voyager had left their space, not because I didn't want to see them again, but because I was relieved for the crew. And what's this "what if", why aren't the Vidiians one of the great trek races? That's a whole other debate - what constitutes great? They had enough plot to actually have a sense of character about them, to develop an identity that had Trek fans in awe.

You need to stop with this absurd notion that people seem to have a genetic predisposition to dislike Voyager. People usually have valid reasons for disliking something.
Not in this case. As a witness who was there from the start, I can honestly say that there was a predisposition against VOY from the first episode onwards (and even before that). I never understood it myself.

If you're going to take part in an argument then at least do it properly. No proof, no explanation of what you said and deliberate vaguery. "From the start" of what? Voyager? The inception of Star Trek itself? And a witness of what? Have you been observing all of star trek fandom? Because to be quite frank you're not making any sense. You're fanning the flames of a debate that has no grounding in reality, and no matter what anyone else posts, no matter what proof, no matter how many of us say that we do actually like Voyager, you just don't listen. Why is that?

I think I'm beginning to see why this was closed in the first place.
 
I think the overall message is that most DS9 fans don't hate Voyager. Some do, but they'll mostly have reasons, just like those of us who do like Voyager, but are critical of some aspects of it. Maybe this hypothetical DS9 fan who just set out to hate Voyager from the start (and yet still seems to have watched every episode) really does exist, but he's not representative of DS9 fans.

Oh, and not all Niners hate Berman and Braga. Berman did co-create the show after all, and Braga's contributions to TNG made it clear that the guy has talent, even if he's made some mis-steps.
 
I'm sure the watched-every-episode type is out there. There was a poster in the BSG forum who hated it with ever fibre of his being but went over each episode in minute detail to prove how awful it all was.
 
^ I'm only four episodes away. ;)

And what's this "what if", why aren't the Vidiians one of the great trek races? That's a whole other debate - what constitutes great? They had enough plot to actually have a sense of character about them, to develop an identity that had Trek fans in awe.
I'll go on record and say that they're one of the best Trek races ever, but they were poorly developed after their initial episodes. They had more potential than the Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians and the Dominion, but each of those races had dozens of episodes devoted to them whereas the Vidiians only had three episodes where they were developed as a race (Phage, Faces, Lifesigns). I still think that they're one of the best and, contrary to Anwar's claims, I definately wanted to see more of them rather than less.
 
Mmm, deadlock, janeway boned a monkey and George Costanza in Space... But I get your point, not exactly developing rather than backdroppy, but just in reflection rather than assuming that George was lying, what exactly could have been the worst interpretation of "Oh, the Vidiians, you would hardly recognise them anymore." Goodness knows what abomination they were mutated into with the promise that they were now phage resistant no matter any other new problems?
 
It's a shame we can't demand one-off episodes/TV movies to explain some of these things. I'd love to see what happened to the Vidiians!
 
We can demand.

Do you have Abrams address, a stolen car, a roll of duct-tape, an unregistered firearm, and a carton of unused Nylon stockings?
 
Where most other people have their shame gland, I have a second awesomeness gland.

Deep Space Nine is more enjoyable, but it dopes me like heroin into a daze, while Voyager is the sharp kick of two fingers of neat Jack shot straight back bringing on a mouthy righteous slurly brawly monoriot.
 
It's a shame we can't demand one-off episodes/TV movies to explain some of these things. I'd love to see what happened to the Vidiians!

I think it was mentioned in the episode Think Tank that the phage had been cured by that group. I wonder what the payment to them were though.
 
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