Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

[The Wormhole]

That's not how Star Trek works. It has particular characteristics to it that if removed, simply stop it from being Star Trek. Chief amongst them are imparting ideas such as nobility, decency, camaraderie and friendship.

Yeah, no. I'm sick of the notion that Star Trek must be noble and virtuous and anything otherwise is an unwelcome aberration. I want to embrace what Star Trek can be rather than dictating what it should be. And really, the only thing it "should be" is entertaining. And I find Emperor Georgiou an entertaining character, so I am curious what a show about her can contribute to Star Trek mythos and lore. And if that means she's going on a black ops mission in which she leaves her partner behind to be eaten by the space-wolves, of which she has already needlessly murdered a few and then she goes back to Section 31 HQ just to flip a middle finger at Gene's Vision while eating a Kelpien, then hey, as long as it's entertaining I'm a happy viewer.

Now, maybe some of you don't find Emperor Georgiou an entertaining character, and that's fine, and I can understand not being enthused about a spin-off centering on a character you don't care for. But I'm not going to write the show off just because it doesn't espouse values everyone considers to be Star Trek's Core.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, no. I'm sick of the notion that Star Trek must be noble and virtuous and anything otherwise is an unwelcome aberration.

I completely agree with this point. I am tired and worn out frankly of expecting superheroes for protagonists of Star Trek shows, and daring to challenge the optimistic vision somehow is a rejection of Star Trek. If Star Trek cannot endure even the slightest change in tone or concept then it becomes rather worthless as entertainment and will be a nostalgia album.

 

[Four Lights]

I completely agree with this point. I am tired and worn out frankly of expecting superheroes for protagonists of Star Trek shows, and daring to challenge the optimistic vision somehow is a rejection of Star Trek. If Star Trek cannot endure even the slightest change in tone or concept then it becomes rather worthless as entertainment and will be a nostalgia album.

I think the changes planned are rather more than slight.

 

[Gonzo]

For good or for ill I think that Discovery has demonstrated more of a need for ensemble support rather than one lone star carrying the weight. I love Michael as a character but Season 2 definitely engaged me more with Spock and Pike and Saru and all the wonderful relationship interactions.

Yeah, Spocks introduction was good and helped a lot but it was really Pikes appearance from the beginning of the season that set the tone and it helped a lot.

The characters in season one were great, the show was supposed to be from the perspective of Burnham yet I found Lorca to be far more engaging and when he did the heel turn it rubbed quite a few viewers up the wrong way.

Perhaps it would have been best to have avoided the MU aspects for the first season to give the characters more time to establish themselves, they would have had a stronger presence and been able to hold their own when Pike was introduced, its no real surprise that introducing canon yet somewhat unknown characters like Pike and Number 1 was bound to over shadow the main cast somewhat.

Whether or not that was CBS intention remains to be seen, ultimately it did help to stabilise the show, the question is how well the show will continue now that Pike/Spock and Number One are gone.

If I had to choose between Pike or Georgiou being on board in the future it would be an easy answer, I like the MU Georgiou but against Pike its no contest, not that it matters as Georgiou will have her own show soon enough, maybe Pike as well if CBS are able to make it happen.

The upcoming season 3 is going to be very important for the show and we will find out how well the show and cast can hold their own when there is no possibility of parachuting in a Spock or Pike character to anchor it.

 

[fireproof78]

I think the changes planned are rather more than slight.

Its territory Star Trek has visited before. The only change is who the protagonist is.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think some people are so invested in hating the Section 31 show that if it turns out that they end up thinking, "This isn't so bad!" they won't feel like they'll be able to say so because they dug themselves in so deep. So I think we'll have some closet S31 fans if that turns out to be the case.

The ones who are clinging to The Vision, I think are more mock-outraged than anything else. It sounds better to say "This goes against Gene's Vision!" than to say "I just don't like it."

If you like the TOS Movies after TMP, or you like DS9 (some of the things never would've been allowed in TNG when Gene was still alive), then you're already in territory of liking Star Trek that goes "against" Gene's Vision.

 

[fireproof78]

I think some people are so invested in hating the Section 31 show that if it turns out that they end up thinking, "This isn't so bad!" they won't feel like they'll be able to say so because they dug themselves in so deep. So I think we'll have some closet S31 fans if that turns out to be the case.

This might be true. It's a similar idea to overhyping a film or TV show. If it doesn't live up to the hype then its a terrible experience. Likewise, if a person builds up hate towards something and finally sees it there is the possibility it doesn't live up to the hype of hate.

Yeah, I can see it happening.

 

[Jadeb]

I don’t care about Gene that much one way or the other, but I don’t see the need to inject Trek with ugliness and cruelty. There’s plenty of that available in pop culture already. If they avoid that, I could be down with a spy show, or even a black ops show. But it would need to be handled in a more mature fashion than what Discovery has given us. I'm never going to like silly nonsense like "yum yum."

 

[fireproof78]

I'm never going to like silly nonsense like "yum yum."

I don't like it either. Doesn't mean S31 will be like that.

 

[Jadeb]

I don't like it either. Doesn't mean S31 will be like that.

Hope not. I thought Lorca’s grayness was by far the best part of season one, and if they do something along those lines, the show could be really interesting. Unfortunately, having the cartoonish emperor as the lead brings a lot of baggage. It’s not an insurmountable obstacle to creating a show I would like, but it’s a significant one.

 

[fireproof78]

Hope not. I thought Lorca’s grayness was by far the best part of season one, and if they do something along those lines, the show could be really interesting. Unfortunately, having the cartoonish emperor as the lead brings a lot of baggage. It’s not an insurmountable obstacle to creating a show I would like, but it’s a significant one.

The greatest rewards come from the greatest obstacles.

 

[The Wormhole]

I thought Lorca’s grayness was by far the best part of season one,

It was until they copped out and said "he was from the Mirror Universe all along."

 

[Gonzo]

It was until they copped out and said "he was from the Mirror Universe all along."

Bit of a shame really if you think about it.

 

[Jadeb]

Imagine if Jason Isaacs was going to be in the Section 31 show. Lorca's no-nonsense attitude is just what that show needs.

 

[Mudd]

 

[fireproof78]

Bit of a shame really if you think about it.

It really is.

 

[Gonzo]

Imagine if Jason Isaacs was going to be in the Section 31 show. Lorca's no-nonsense attitude is just what that show needs.

It would have been much better if he had been found to be a member of S31 rather than being from the MU.

He still could be though, we never saw the PU Lorca's body after all.

 

[fireproof78]

It would have been much better if he had been found to be a member of S31 rather than being from the MU.

He still could be though, we never saw the PU Lorca's body after all.

He's in the future.

 

[The Wormhole]

It would have been much better if he had been found to be a member of S31 rather than being from the MU.

At the very least it would explain the two Black Badge guys we see in Context is for Kings. Which sadly, the revelation they were Section 31 now only makes their presence all the more confusing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I'm gonna take a bit of a leap here and guess S31 is going to replace Discovery, which may possibly end with season 3.