Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Tom, May 2, 2019.

?

Drop the Section 31 show for a the Pike show?

  1. Yes, I want a Pike show, and do not want a Section 31 show.

    117 vote(s)
    55.7%
  2. No, I want a Section 31 show, and do not want a show with Pike.

    9 vote(s)
    4.3%
  3. I want a show that feature both Pike and crew on the Enterprise and Section 31 with Georgiou.

    20 vote(s)
    9.5%
  4. I trust CBS to give me something I will like!

    12 vote(s)
    5.7%
  5. I want to see both! as separate shows.

    52 vote(s)
    24.8%
  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Isn't that part of Trek's appeal is that it is shades of gray? Do we really want black and white moralizing?
     
  2. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Given some of the comment concerning S31, it would seem that some only want the 'white.' With a complete absence of either grey or black.
     
    lazarus+ likes this.
  3. Beckerjr

    Beckerjr Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Location:
    Arizona
    Sums up my thoughts exactly. Showing the journey to try and get there is what’s compelling drama\entertainment.
     
    SJGardner and fireproof78 like this.
  4. Beckerjr

    Beckerjr Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2019
    Location:
    Arizona
    Again couldn’t agree more. That statement is what DS9 fans would point to as what made that show so appealing to them.
     
  5. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    In A Taste of Armageddon, once Kirk disarmed the guards and was in control of the senior council there was no need to destroy the war making computers, the ship was no longer in danger.

    He and the landing party could have just beamed up and the ship departed. Instead Kirk and Spock destroyed the computers.
     
  6. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Which truly makes me wonder what Star Trek people have been watching?
    And, in so doing, completely altered the course of a culture. Which makes me all the more concerned that somehow this is more acceptable as Star Trek when the heroes of the story are making choices that have huge implications without even a comment. same thing with Picard and the planet of clones. He was content to just walk away and let them destroy themselves since they refused (at first) to change.

    That's all ok? Selective outrage it seems to me.
     
    lazarus+ likes this.
  7. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Always seeking new and better distractions
    I can't imagine how S31 cloak-and-dagger foolishness is supposed to make a show more "real."
     
    Longinus likes this.
  8. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    It's not for everyone. Just because it isn't for everyone doesn't mean it can't be included.
     
    Gonzo, Vger23 and Lord Garth like this.
  9. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Sounds like a "you" problem.
     
    lazarus+, Gonzo and Lord Garth like this.
  10. XCV330

    XCV330 A Being of Pure Caffeine Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2017
    Location:
    jippers on a beach somewhere
    Lord Garth and ozzfloyd like this.
  11. SJGardner

    SJGardner Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2018
    Location:
    In the center of Europe
    I think many people overestimate just how well-known 23rd century Section 31 actually is. Alright, they have badges. Does that automatically mean that the general public knows about Section 31 and they are completely okay with their existence? The civilian prisoner in Context is for Kings definitely didn't know what the badges stood for. And I think even if Starfleet personnel know who they are, they don't necessarily know anything other than they are our dedicated counter-espionage outfit and anything more specific is possibly on a need-to-know basis.

    I don't feel that the existence of Section 31 would make the entire Federation and humanity as a whole complicit in all their crimes or at the very least morally compromised by tolerating their existence. Chances are the average folks don't even know they exist and even if they do, they have no idea what they're doing.
     
    Lord Garth likes this.
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Exactly.

    Yet, some how, the mere existence of Section 31 makes the Federation a lie and the "utopian" (I use quotes because what that word means to me doesn't track with others and their definition). I don't follow with this logic.
     
    SJGardner likes this.
  13. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 22, 2001
    Location:
    None Given
    Really? You don't think they had other security forces on the planet that would eventually come to free their leaders from a small force that occupied the main council chamber. IDK how you can believe they were "no longer in danger" as during the episode Kirk had the tables turned on him when he tried to change Anon-7's mind (admittedly at gunpoint) in Anon-7's office. The ONLY way to make sure he and his crew would be safe was to give the entire planet more to worry about.

    No matter what - IF Anon-7 (and Eminiar 7 as a whole )j ust let Kirk and Co, go; that might be seen as a worse abrogation of the agreement since 50 years earlier they WERE also to bring a Federation starship down and follow the existing agreement. <--- So that might have led to Vendicar deciding to go back to waging real war; which was why Anon-7 was doing everything he could think of to bring the 1701 and her crew into compliance.

    That said, to be fair - IF Anon-7 had called Vendicar and explained (including security footage, etc.); he may have found them to be receptive of just restoring the old 'status quo' as well. It was a bit pat to assume that Vendicar would automatically also want to go to a real war footing. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  14. Serveaux

    Serveaux Tasteless and unnecessary Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2013
    Location:
    Always seeking new and better distractions
    nope.jpg

    I mean, if you buy "grimdark" as something other than a superficial and indulgent posture at this point...well, that's fairly certainly a "you" problem, yeah.
     
    Longinus likes this.
  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Man, if only I saw grimdark somewhere... :shrug:
     
    lazarus+, SJGardner and ozzfloyd like this.
  16. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    Who wants some shish-kabob? Right off the grill.
     
  17. Vger23

    Vger23 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2014
    Location:
    New England
    It's completely unrealistic to think that a society as diverse and massive as The United Federation of Planets as just generic utopian "good guys" across the board. In fact, it's absolutely ludicrous.

    And Star Trek is a drama. Good drama is based on conflict and tension. Drama about an idealized society particularly needs to be about the challenges and threats to that society and to the principles of those who live within it. Otherwise, who honestly gives a shit? What is interesting about a wonderful society if we don't see the sacrifices and conflicts it takes to maintain it sometimes? Nothing is EARNED unless you show that....and that's boring and ultimately ineffective (talking to you, TNG) otherwise.

    S31, while not my favorite concept, brings that realism and appreciation for what the Federation ultimately represents. It doesn't detract from it, it enhances it. And, if done right, could be a great addition as a result.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    lazarus+, Alan Roi, Gonzo and 3 others like this.
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2014
    Location:
    fireproof78
    Ah, I think we have the misunderstanding here. This isn't good drama. This is Star Trek drama. I trust you to figure out the difference ;)
     
  19. ozzfloyd

    ozzfloyd Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    Hey, Trek can't always be the masterpiece of Tin Man, that's for sure...lol.
     
    lazarus+ and Lord Garth like this.
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Maryland, USA
    I don't know...have you written a script for a Star Trek episode that was actually filmed? And if so, just how much of a 'masterpiece' was it?