Yes, it was much better when black ops were conducted by our series regulars, rather than some covert operations division.
That makes perfect sense...
That makes perfect sense...
Drop the S31 show for a Captain Pike show?
- Thread starter Tom
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Well thats's like, your opinion, man.
And you have no idea whether the TNG era will be Star Trek's greatest period of success going forward, though I can understand why you would want that to remain true.
Somehow Section 31 since its first appearance has shown up in several Deep Space 9, episodes, Enterprise, one movie, Discovery, will be the subject of its own series. It might not be everyone's favorite concept but it does resonate with some audience members and by the number of times it keeps being used, with quite a few of them, myself included. This is the point where by rote someone might deliver an elitist remark about the unwashed masses not knowing what they like, or show-runners not providing the high quality of carefully constructed season 4 TNG epidoes, or something like that.
Sec31 is as much a part of star trek as phasers, ill fitting uniforms, and 3d chess. It's been seen more times than Vulcan lyres, food cubes or Starfleet commodes.
TNG wouldn't even get TNG's ratings today. Ratings from a quarter century ago don't matter today.
Section 31 was in Star Trek Into Darkness, the highest-grossing Star Trek movie worldwide. Doesn't matter that S31 came from DS9, it's part of the Abrams Films, if you want to play the Popularity Game. "But it's popular!!!" It's high school mentality, but there we have it if you want to go there.
Section 31 was in Star Trek Into Darkness, the highest-grossing Star Trek movie worldwide. Doesn't matter that S31 came from DS9, it's part of the Abrams Films, if you want to play the Popularity Game. "But it's popular!!!" It's high school mentality, but there we have it if you want to go there.
One method, yes, and by that number, it is quite possible Discovery has the greatest potential audience of any Star Trek series since the 1960's. Going by nielson ratings, TNG chased TOS's numbers once or twice. And both series remain popular in repeats, as do all of the older shows. Only the streaming service owners could say for certain, and this has been discussed before but at 139 million subscribers, over half of whom are international and not US domestic, that alone gives a far greater reach than any of the 80s-90s trek's could reach during first run syndication, and that does not include US or Canadian viewers.
With Discovery being the most popular streaming show in the world this April, that can't be discounted.
So as I was saying, and not to get pulled off into side branches, people DO seem to like stories about Section 31. And they like Pike too.
Precisely so. There is an upswing in many different fan interests, and that was demonstrated by the success of Into Darkness, the popularity (now) of DS9, as well as several fan projects that explore the darker facets of Star Trek.
It should come as neither surprising nor offensive that things like Section 31 are continuing forward. Whether people like them or not is going to vary, but the success of such "darker" tone projects is pretty demonstrable, if only we are going by ratings and financial success, which I know is only one marker.
I'd like a Pike show, for a simple reason: they could do the kind of shows TOS couldn't back in the day. And, to be frank, we'd also get a LOT less of, "Let me... showyou.. this... Earththing... called... kissing." Less erratic captaining and shenanigans, more professional behaviour with charm.
This guy summed it up pretty well for me.
This guy summed it up pretty well for me.
G
Gonzo
Guest
I do feel thee kinds of aspects enhance rather than detract from the universe.
B5 did it very well and so did Farscape at times, easy to slowly die of starvation in the vast emptiness of space, to the point that they were eating dentics to survive.
I have always considered replicators to be a bit of a cop out really.
Can I just say this? Anson Mount as Captain Pike...is the sh*t!
With only a bit of quirks I could pick up on creatively, I think season 2 was nicely done, especially homage to TOS with Talos 4 & the last two episodes prominently showing off the Constitution-class. #IMO
With only a bit of quirks I could pick up on creatively, I think season 2 was nicely done, especially homage to TOS with Talos 4 & the last two episodes prominently showing off the Constitution-class. #IMO
...and that bridge reboot is amazing. Classically re-imagined with at least a sense of 21st century believability. No where near resembling anything off the Abrams lot at Paramount. I figure maybe a proprietary franchise issue. I dunno, but the DISC version of the Enterprise bridge is rockstar.
Absolutely.
...though to be sure, DISC is a show that needs to stand alone, and I think it has successfully so far (no doubt to continue with season 3), with adding the Enterprise to tie in canon with dramatic purpose. To dedicate a Pike series where it sorta was left untold during the run of TOS would be a interesting venture & as someone previously referenced, a story of nostalgia.
This is an awfully interesting feature to show up so recently on CBS's STD page:
Three Times Pike And Spock Led The Best Version Of The Enterprise
There's some serious boosterism in the copy...
Three Times Pike And Spock Led The Best Version Of The Enterprise
There's some serious boosterism in the copy...
I saw this video too. She raises some very good points.
Personally I think Into Darkness's better box office had more to do with Star Trek 09 than with its own merits. Star Trek 09 did a lot of Star Trek promotion work overseas which helped Into Darkness's foreign box office a lot. In the USA it decreased. Cumberbatch might have helped, too. He was a well known actor at that time already and had a bunch of fans overseas. Beyond had the worst box office of the new movies. How much it was bad marketing, people being disappointed by Into Darkness, bad worth of mouth or people simply gotten tired of this new movie universe, who knows. Likely it was a combination of these reasons.
DS9 is not particular dark, especially for its earlier seasons. That said is it really so super popular compared to other Star Trek series nowadays? At least it wasn't considered popular enough by the bigwigs to make a movie based on it or a series with a character from it. They seemingly weren't even willing to hand out a small fraction of the budget of one DIS episode for the What We Left Behind documentary. When it comes to Star Trek fans, who can say exactly. There are so many lists and polls ranking them out there and often with different kind of results. Though generally it appears there are still more people out there who either name TOS, TNG, VOY or ENT as their favorite Star Trek series than DS9 or DIS.
That said there will always be people who prefer dark entertainment over light stuff and the opposite is also true. And likely the majority can appreciate both kinds of series and movies as long as they are written well. I think though overall the most popular entertainment choice are movies and series which stay away from extremes and mix dark and light stuff well.
There are multiple reasons, that is quite correct. My larger point is that in my observations of fandom (mostly on the Internet) shows at least interest in darker tone ideas, from fan films like Renegades or Pacific 201 to Star Trek Online incorporating more dark element. Now, this is not an exact science, since the things that are expressed interest in do not always carry over into actual purchasing of the product. I just find it interesting that shows like DS9 are much lauded, that fan projects like Renegades and Axanar demonstrated a financial interest in dark tones, and Star Trek Into Darkness has one of the best box office takes for a Star Trek film.
Correlation does not equal causation but I find it highly interesting to see these trends.
Now we're downplaying the Into Darkness box office to be able to still take a dig at Section 31? Whatever.
I don't like the movie, personally, but it made lots of money. You can't take that away from it.
My impression was that the biggest fans of the Abrams Films defended ID the most, in part because it takes more flak than the other two films but also because they like the direction it went in. I'm going off faded memory but I remember Admiral Marcus and S31 being integral to the plot.
I don't like the movie, personally, but it made lots of money. You can't take that away from it.
My impression was that the biggest fans of the Abrams Films defended ID the most, in part because it takes more flak than the other two films but also because they like the direction it went in. I'm going off faded memory but I remember Admiral Marcus and S31 being integral to the plot.
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Yeah, pretty much.
He is an integral part of the plot as well as S31 machinations in response to anticipated Klingon aggression. Additionally, Marcus is the villain of the film, until he is replaced by the very thing he sought to control. All of this is wrapped up in a commentary on warhawk behavior.
But, that all gets ignored for knocking the film because "Wrath of Kahn remake!" Whatever.
Maybe you can take consolation in the fact that 100 percent of those fans are going to hate the actual product with the heat of 1,000 suns.
They just had the Badmiral of the week, which never got old.
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