Does Rank have privileges in the future?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Gabriel, Dec 23, 2018.

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Does rank have privileges

Poll closed Jan 6, 2019.
  1. Yes

    97.1%
  2. No

    2.9%
  1. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    I'd put it this way: If you were a patient, would you want a physician who had spent the last 20 years running ships and then passed a medical test, or someone who had spent their career treating patients? And to consider the reverse, would you want your ship commanded by a career physician who had passed a test if there were someone available who had spent their career learning about and progressing toward commanding ships?

    The US Navy tried a system where medical officers commanded hospital ships early in the 20th century. The idea was, the medical officer was in command of the hospital, which happened to be located on a ship, and the ship itself was run by a contracted merchant crew under a civilian master. Basically the medical officer would decide where to go and what to do, and the merchant captain would get the ship there. In WW1 navy (reserve) crews took over for the civilians, so a naval line officer was in charge of navigating the ship. In 1921 there was a dispute on USS Mercy AH-4 between the medical commanding officer, Cdr William Garton (MC) and the senior line officer, a highly experienced reservist and master mariner, LCdr Athol George. The medical officer wanted George to sign the log with the noon navigation position, but the vessel was in heavy fog in coastal water and George refused because he had his hands full trying to safely conn the ship and didn't know the exact position. Garton ordered him to sign it and he refused again. George was found guilty by court-martial of disobeying an order from a superior. The Secretary of the Navy overturned the verdict on the basis that previous regulations which had allowed medical corps officers to command hospital ships were inconsistent with laws and precedents that staff corps officers couldn't exercise military command over line officers; in effect, Garton's order wasn't a lawful order. Lieutenant Commander George was restored to full duty, and never again would a non-line officer hold a command position in a US Navy vessel.
     
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  2. Discofan

    Discofan Rear Admiral Fleet Captain

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    I wouldn't mind playing a traitor, a coward or a bad guy in general. What matters is the acting not the likeability of the character. Besides without the bad guys, there wouldn't be any story at all. The problem with bad guys is that they rarely are long recurring characters.

    I remember what Harrison Ford said in an interview, something like: "I prefer to play the good guys because the pay is better."
     
  3. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Well that was a long but good answer. By they way were did you get information because I have read extensively on us navy history. And maybe it is better to have a junior officer command officer comand the ship instead of. Doctor who past a command test. And you know what I were a junior command officer I would rather command a patrol boat than a defenseless ship like a hospital ship. And before you say no navy would fire on a hospital ship that is unamed and complying with Geneva Convention, last time I checked there were some terrorist and pirates who would not care that it’s a hospital ship they would just etheir raid it or destroy it just to attack the us or who ever own the hospital ship. On another note today no U.S. Navy officer will have to command a hospital ship since all of today’s hospital ship are Miltary sealift command ships (USNS) which are navy ships but crewed by civilians with navy hospital ships. And you know what i agree with that doctors should stay in sickbay where they belong. Although I will ask this question because I’m curious
    Do you think that doctor crusher is capable of commanding a medical ship. I think in her case it’s fine because on the one time she command the enterprise in a crisis she did a pretty good job.
     
  4. Discofan

    Discofan Rear Admiral Fleet Captain

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    Plus she was the one who believed in the multi-phasic shield that saved their lives that day. Thanks to her a Ferengi will be remembered as a great scientist, posthumously though.
     
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  5. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Right. I don’t think anyone else would think of that.
     
  6. Discofan

    Discofan Rear Admiral Fleet Captain

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    Definitely in this case, given that everyone was against her.
     
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  7. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    They probably thought “she just a doctor, she know about this”
     
  8. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Here is something about it that includes the SecNav decision, though the names were all removed.
    https://www.history.navy.mil/resear...u/united-states-naval-hospital-ships-nhf.html

    It has been a common practice, at least in the US Navy, to give officers command of a large auxiliary before they command a large combatant ship, to give them experience handling a deep draft vessel. Hospital ships were good for that, when they were commissioned naval vessels.

    Yes indeed.

    If I had a choice between a line officer who had served time as a division officer, officer of the deck underway, assistant department head, department head, XO and so on and a medical doctor, my first choice would not be the medical doctor. Stories were written with situations like that to give cast members something more interesting to do, but I don't find it particularly believable.
     
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  9. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the link. I’m asking about doctor crusher as a person not her job. And by they way I’m no t say the doctor is the first choice as shown in the episode where she commands the enterprise . Let me put it this way would you rather have doctor crusher or junior officer in comand
     
  10. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    I find a lot of parallels with a captain and a doctor, or more specifically a CMO... at least the good ones in both professions. Crusher's actions and decisions in "Descent, Part II" proved this.

    Both gather information from others to make informed decisions.
    Both remain cool under fire.
    Both can and do resort to out of the box thinking to save lives.
    Both have to have some good people skills for dealing with patients or officers under them.

    Actually, of all the CMOs we've had in STAR TREK, I'd pick Crusher as first choice to take the chair.
     
  11. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Right I don’t mean all CMO just ones who show they can adapt to non medical situations and I believe doctor crusher has shown that
     
  12. SolarisOne

    SolarisOne Commander Red Shirt

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    Junior (line) officer. At least they have some training for command of a ship under their belt. Medical personnel have none. That's the point.

    Indeed. Like I said, Tasha Yar would have been the perfect candidate for that kind of storyline. Troi and Crusher, not so much.

    The problem isn't their personal capabilities, it's their experience and training. Unrestricted line officers are groomed from the very beginning for eventual command, because, for one thing, there is a lot of specialized knowledge that a medical professional is simply not going to accrue in the course of their duties. And experience is extremely important, too. Remember, we're talking about the CO of a ship that may end up in a combat situation at any time, even moreso in Star Trek than real life these days.

    The reason Crusher did well is because the writers wrote it that way. If you took a real-world CMO and placed them in command during a crisis situation, disaster would ensue. Either that, or they would end up being a figurehead, with the other officers and CPOs covering for their ineptitude, on top of their own duties.
     
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  13. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    I never meant to say a real world CMO I meant to doctor crusher the character. Forget about other CMOs just think about that character. So would you rather doctor crusher the character or junior officer. And by they way in really has never been proven that starfleet separates officers in to line or staff
    And by the way i would never want a CMO to take command of a ship 99 percent of the time. I understand that line officer and staff officer are different. I’m just talking about this one character.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  14. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    It doesn't matter who the individual is, I'd take the most junior qualified officer over the most senior unqualified. I find it hard to believe that her career experience has qualified her for that position.

    Might as well have Picard performing surgery then.

    In "A Taste of Armageddon" Bones tells Scotty what he might do if he were "an officer of the line."
     
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  15. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Well the writing in decent says. Because crusher saves the ship by using a shield design no other junior officer would think to use. Now I’m not saying the cmo belongs any where on the bridge but in the case of people likely doctor crusher if there is no department head left or assistant head left then maybe I would put her (Dr crusher) in charge mostly because of she took the bridge officer test. I just think that putting a junior officer in comand of a big ship is a little foolish. Also starfleet is not in the habit of putting junior officers in command as LT Resse pointed out on DS9 “might as well have picard preforming surgery then” respectfully the sarcasm is a little unnecessary. Also the dialogue in the original series can vary a lot. Also that was a delete scene for all we know Gene got rid of it because starfleet doesn’t believe in separating Officers into staff or line officer. Although that doesn’t mean that don’t believe separate officers into staff and line isn’t necessary. Also one last question would you let a science officer take comand?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  16. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    If you find that situation believable, I'm not going to try to change your mind. I don't.

    I don't see the point of comparing a few points of broad similarity between two completely different professions. The captain taking on the physician's work makes as much sense as the other way round.

    What was a deleted scene?
     
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  17. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Ok I thought the part where McCoy Officer of the line was a deleted scene. I was wrong. On the captain Picard part. I’m sure you didn’t mean to come of as sarcastic but you did if only a little bit. Although I do live with a very sarcastic person so i guess I saw it where it didn’t exist I apologize. I’m just saying this one character to me has shown that is there is no other senior officer left they can be left in charge of the ship and not get tit blown up. You can call it good writing but it is what it is Star Trek history: first time we have seen a CMO take command. Although I do agree with you that with any other staff officer should stay away from comand. Also one last thing you. Did not answer my last question: would you let a science officer command a ship. Also one last thing do you think that the first officer position should be a stand alone position or should it be a duty given to another officer like the security chief, helmsman, etc.
     
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Stand alone. Being XO is a lot of work on its own, it's downright preposterous to have an XO hold down another full time job like being a department head too.
     
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  19. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank you. Totally the xo is a very busy person they can’t worry about a thing a department head is worried about when they need to be doing things like the duty roster. One Trekkie even said the XO can stay off the bridge until he gets a real job like the big boys.
     
  20. Gabriel

    Gabriel Commander Red Shirt

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    This is a good question so everyone put your opinion in it
    do you think that the first officer position should be a stand alone position or should it be a duty given to another officer like the security chief, helmsman, etc.