Does Rank have privileges in the future?

[Discofan]

We also can't really take that seriously because it was a Q created reality. He likely made him such a low rank to drive the point home.

That's not consistent with what Q said or Picard's reaction to it. Plus for Picard to believe it, it has to correspond with his own long experience of Starfleet and their ranking habits. Otherwise, Picard would have called Q on it. As I said ¨Picard is a veteran of Starfleet, he's been a member of it for many decades. He knows what's plausible and what isn't.

 

[Gabriel]

That's not consistent with what Q said or Picard's reaction to it. Plus for Picard to believe it, it has to correspond with his own long experience of Starfleet and their ranking habits. Otherwise, Picard would have called Q on it. As I said ¨Picard is a veteran of Starfleet, he's been a member of it for many decades. He knows what's plausible and what isn't.

Well in that reality all picard was was some non department head science nerd I don’t think that really warrants a rank higher lieutenant junior grade. And plus and the reality both Riker and Troy both said that picard really never accomplished really anything. And I’m pretty sure Starfleet operates that you get promoted for quality of service not time served.

 

[Discofan]

Well in that reality all picard was was some non department head science nerd I don’t think that really warrants a rank higher lieutenant junior grade. And plus and the reality both Riker and Troy both said that picard really never accomplished really anything. And I’m pretty sure Starfleet operates that you get promoted for quality of service not time served.

Except that In reality very few people in the army even have the opportunity to do "something heroic", most people now retire without ever been in a combat zone, most people just do their jobs as in any other profession. So in Starfleet logic, there would never be any promotions and people would all remain Lieutenants Junior grade all their lives! Seems a bit absurd to me.

Plus you don't promote someone because of the way they react to danger or anything, those people get medals and that's it. What you promote are people who are competent, who know their jobs very well and with consistency and that means the Picard who DIDN't get stabbed! The morality of that episode is just stupid.

Heroic behavior doesn't make you a good captain. In fact, you could be the most courageous soldier in the world and be a lousy officer.

 

[Nyotarules]

Except that In reality very few people in the army even have the opportunity to do "something heroic", most people now retire without ever been in a combat zone, most people just do their jobs as in any other profession. So in Starfleet logic, there would never be any promotions and people would all remain Lieutenants Junior grade all their lives! Seems a bit absurd to me.

Plus you don't promote someone because of the way they react to danger or anything, those people get medals and that's it. What you promote are people who are competent, who know their jobs very well and with consistency and that means the Picard who DIDN't get stabbed! The morality of that episode is just stupid.

Heroic behavior doesn't make you a good captain. In fact, you could be the most courageous soldier in the world and be a lousy officer.

Starfleet gave up on reality after the Xindi war and during the Romulan war.cue the bridge crew still serving in the same roles ten years later as per TATV. No wonder in TOS its a 100% human organisation.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Plus you don't promote someone because of the way they react to danger or anything, those people get medals and that's it. What you promote are people who are competent, who know their jobs very well and with consistency and that means the Picard who DIDN't get stabbed! The morality of that episode is just stupid.

Sorta.

Clearly Starfleet doesn't have an 'up and out' policy ala many Western militaries (otherwise Picard would have been up "and out'd" as much as ten years before the start of TNG), therefore making possible (as in many law enforcement organisations).

Also, at least defined by the website Military.com there six key personality traits of a "good leader" (ie someone who should be promoted) and BlueShirt!Picard seems to lack many of them:

1. Ambition: Somewhat present, but not to any useful degree.

2. Drive and Tenacity: Explicitly absent.

3. Self-Confidence: More difficult to assess, but Riker and Troi appeared to be surprised by the self-confidence that Picard showed on screen, so IMO it's likely that he's not well known for it.

4. Psychological Openness: Not specifically covered, this is one area that BlueShirt!Picard might similarly to Captain Picard on.

5. Realism: His conversation with Riker and Troi seems to suggest he appears to be lacking in this area.

6. Appetite for Learning: Given Captain Picard's varied interests, I think we can assume that a Picard with less responsibilities and more "time on his hands" would be at least as learned academically.

So, given the incomplete list above, it makes sense to me that he would have been allowed to stay in Starfleet (he gets the work done, and done well) but wouldn't be considered Department Head material and therefore promotable beyond junior officer.

 

[Nyotarules]

Clearly Starfleet doesn't have an 'up and out' policy ala many Western militaries (otherwise Picard would have been up "and out'd" as much as ten years before the start of TNG), therefore making possible (as in many law enforcement organisations).

Either its extremely difficult for Starfleet to get recruits for an organisation that defends trillions so should be staffed by millions or since Starfleet is 'not a military' (I'm not in that camp) then like any civilian job you can stay until you resign, made redundant or are sacked.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

(I'm not in that camp)

As I noted in my post, I think a better model is the "medial point" between military (warfare-centric) and true civilian (unarmed, non-combatant) of "law enforcement/science agency with added ad hoc hats" (they're a lot like the FBI would be if they took over/merged with the Coast Guard).

 

[Gabriel]

Except that In reality very few people in the army even have the opportunity to do "something heroic", most people now retire without ever been in a combat zone, most people just do their jobs as in any other profession. So in Starfleet logic, there would never be any promotions and people would all remain Lieutenants Junior grade all their lives! Seems a bit absurd to me.

Plus you don't promote someone because of the way they react to danger or anything, those people get medals and that's it. What you promote are people who are competent, who know their jobs very well and with consistency and that means the Picard who DIDN't get stabbed! The morality of that episode is just stupid.

Heroic behavior doesn't make you a good captain. In fact, you could be the most courageous soldier in the world and be a lousy officer.

I didn’t say something heroic where they had to risk their lives or almost die. I meant accomplish something. Take some initiative. Try and transfer out of a department To another one to gain experience. Again Starfleet is unlikely to promote somebody who all they did was just Move from ship to ship not really doing anything. The
As Riker said "If you want to get ahead, you have to take chances... stand out the crowd, get noticed!" I don’t think he meant take on a entire Battalion he meant do something worthy of promotion or at the very least try to stand out with either transfer to a more important department just be an interesting officer. Or as shamrock Holmes picard lacked ambition, drive and tenacity, appetite for learning and self-confidence. You should read his post he explain it better

 

[SolarisOne]

All it takes is one man with a vision. Not necessarily 20/20 vision, mind you.

So ... basically Gene Roddenberry, then?

 

[Nyotarules]

Based on RL US stats population 325.7 million, number of Admirals 271 in US navy
Federation population 9.85 trillion, so number of flag officers in Starfleet or planetary defence forces 8,195,733, enough to populate London. Even if reduced by 50% since 'Starfleet is not the military' that is still millions of posts. Starfleet HQ in San Francisco should be the size of New York city.

 

[Gabriel]

Based on RL US stats population 325.7 million, number of Admirals 271 in US navy
Federation population 9.85 trillion, so number of flag officers in Starfleet or planetary defence forces 8,195,733, enough to populate London. Even if reduced by 50% since 'Starfleet is not the military' that is still millions of posts. Starfleet HQ in San Francisco should be the size of New York city.

Yeah that’s true but maybe they have underground levels

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah that’s true but maybe they have underground levels

I think Articles of the Federation novel described the UFP HQ this way. Make sense since Paris is not that big either or maybe the French leased the whole city to the Federation lol

 

[Discofan]

If rank had so many privileges people would be eager to become admirals instead of captains.

 

[Gabriel]

If rank had so many privileges people would be eager to become admirals instead of captains.

Not really all admiral do is fly a desk. Unless there is a war then they get to blow stuff up

 

[GNDN18]

So ... basically Gene Roddenberry, then?

Very droll.

 

[Discofan]

Not really all admiral do is fly a desk. Unless there is a war then they get to blow stuff up

It takes great skills to fly a desk!!

Try as I may I just can't do it.

 

[Nyotarules]

If rank had so many privileges people would be eager to become admirals instead of captains.

People can be eager to be whatever they want does not mean they will get there. Not everyone wants to be King.

 

[Discofan]

People can be eager to be whatever they want does not mean they will get there. Not everyone wants to be King.

Except that Picard refused to become one and Kirk regretted to ever having been one.

 

[Nyotarules]

Except that Picard refused to become one and Kirk regretted to ever having been one.

Exactly, not even Kirk's friend understood why he accepted promotion, he never seemed eager to climb the greasy pole of Starfleet, according to a ST novel McCoy resigned because Starfleet ignored his medical recommendation that Kirk was not suitable for promotion. (However I admit The Lost years novels give different reasons).

 

[Gabriel]

Exactly not even Kirk's friend understood why he accepted promotion, he never seemed eager to climb the greasy pole of Starfleet, according to a ST novel McCoy resigned because Starfleet ignored his medical recommendation that Kirk was not suitable for promotion. (However I admit The Lost years novels give different reasons).

Well in fanon starfleet had a scandal in the late 2260s that really damaged Starfleet image. So I guess maybe they just wanted to bring in Kirk to try and change people opinions of Starfleet