No one is saying she hasn’t in fact she is like the only doctor I know who would have what it takes to be a captain
Does Rank have privileges in the future?
- Thread starter Gabriel
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I know. I just ended the post with a figure of speech.
As long as you don't end a proposition with a preposition.
Like: T'pol, you are someone I could see myself go out with.
See? That's bad!
It’s a matter of preference but I think many if not most people would like to be on day or swing shift as opposed to night shift. It seems canon would support that the most senior officers on a starship would be on day or swing shift. Of course there isn’t really a day or night in space but on ground installations then it would probably be more important.
Where I work, we have 24/7 operations. Upper management has day shift hours with weekends off. However, they have the ability to adjust their hours to night shift if they occasionally want to do that but very few actually do want to.
It can be viewed as a privilege of rank to have better work hours.
Where I work, we have 24/7 operations. Upper management has day shift hours with weekends off. However, they have the ability to adjust their hours to night shift if they occasionally want to do that but very few actually do want to.
It can be viewed as a privilege of rank to have better work hours.
I am not denying that there are privileges. I am only saying that these privileges are not very important and more often than not token. I mean since much everything can be replicated then all food (from caviar to French fries) can be eaten by everybody, same thing about clothes or things like violins or jewels. Kirk once said to an alien that diamonds, emeralds, and whatnot meant nothing to him and his crew.
Well since you did not deny that there are no privileges then I’m perfectly fine with you answer and I do believe that they do not find privileges that rank give them very important anymore. But you do have to agree the fact that when you get higher rank you can choose not have to be up in the Middle of night every night as a pretty good privilege
I would tend to agree. However, it seems another possible privilege, depending on point of view, is that the highest ranking officers such as admirals would have desk jobs at HQ. They would be relatively safe, not needing to go on away missions. Even during the DS9 war era, an admiral’s ship was probably in the back of the fleet if they were even in the fight.
Of course, some officers like Kirk would love to stay in the field.
“Let me tell you something. Don't! Don't let them promote you. Don't let them transfer you. Don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there, you can make a difference.”
I tend to agree, however, we often see Picard being joined in the middle of the night by the call of a superior officer. So I'd say that the privilege, in that case, would be that the number of people that can bother you anytime gets smaller but it's never zero. Even if you are the head of Starfleet you still answer to the President who answers to the people, IE everyone.
Plus there are situations when even someone like Barcley can wake up the Captain and all the senior staff...
Yep, same here. Except, in my current job, my boss and his boss could not do my job if they had to; if I got sick in the middle of shift and had to leave, they'd have to call someone in to sit in my chair. However, for a while, I was expected to know how to do the job in two other sections "just in case".
Don't take on higher responsibility! Don't use your experience for the benefit of more than one ship! Don't change the character and setting formula!
I'll say it then. Being a captain of a Starship involves a lot of technical knowledge.
Whether to use photon torpedoes or phasers, What happens when your shields fail. When to detach the saucer section. What tactical maneuvers to use against the Ferengi as opposed to Romulans.
Picard has many years of experience in the field. Surely it would take more than 5 minutes for Crusher or anyone to learn these skills. 100s of hours of simulations. Some real-life experience.
All this while having a full-time job aboard the Enterprise.
Crusher suddenly becoming a command grade officer is about as realistic as Geordi suddenly becoming the best engineer ever having no interest/skill in Engineering in Season 1.
Not to mention that in most modern navies, you have to do time in engineering and as chief engineer before you can even be considered for a command position. But since "Starfleet isn't military" of course a doctor or therapist can just take a holodeck simulation and be eligible for command.
Actually, Geordi DID show engineering interest and skill in season 1, as early as "The Last Outpost" when Picard had him go to Engineering to get a starus update when the intercom failed. He not only got that working again, but he also got Riker's plan ready very quickly. Plus, he figured it out before Riker even finished making that an order. Even though that idea ultimately didn't work, he still got the job done.
Geordi was also probably the most well rounded, skill-wise, person on that season 1 main cast. He was helmsman, he did Engineering duties, he did sensor maintenance, he had command of the ship several times. Basically, the only things he didn't do were health related professions.
I look to Dr. Stephen Franklin's choice for his replacement at the end of BABYLON 5 as a barometer. He chose Dr. Hobbes because she spent more time in all the medical departments than any of the others... basically, a jack of all trades physician. That made her a valuable asset because she understands all aspects of that team. (Colonel Jack O'Neill on SG-1 even said the best way to understand a command is to every job yourself at least once.) Geordi later proved to be a good engineer, but he was made the CHIEF engineer because he was also very well rounded and a jack of all trades. AND he had command experience, which in hindsight I think Picard put him in those command situations to test him and see if he was ready to take on arguably the most important department on the ship. So him being made Chief Engineer at the beginning of season 2 makes sense to me.
Side note: it definitely helped having that VISOR to see things no one else can. Not even Data.
Geordi was also probably the most well rounded, skill-wise, person on that season 1 main cast. He was helmsman, he did Engineering duties, he did sensor maintenance, he had command of the ship several times. Basically, the only things he didn't do were health related professions.
I look to Dr. Stephen Franklin's choice for his replacement at the end of BABYLON 5 as a barometer. He chose Dr. Hobbes because she spent more time in all the medical departments than any of the others... basically, a jack of all trades physician. That made her a valuable asset because she understands all aspects of that team. (Colonel Jack O'Neill on SG-1 even said the best way to understand a command is to every job yourself at least once.) Geordi later proved to be a good engineer, but he was made the CHIEF engineer because he was also very well rounded and a jack of all trades. AND he had command experience, which in hindsight I think Picard put him in those command situations to test him and see if he was ready to take on arguably the most important department on the ship. So him being made Chief Engineer at the beginning of season 2 makes sense to me.
Side note: it definitely helped having that VISOR to see things no one else can. Not even Data.
Geordi was a neutral character with a geewhiz facial device.
It was a natural fit to put him in engineering.
It was a natural fit to put him in engineering.
For Privlages, have to think Rank Vs. Billet.
A Billet is .. well where you work, or a Job Title, the oft mentioned Ensign Kim has a billit of Chief of Operations ( Same as Data) on the Voyager. He works Alpha shift ( presumably 7am - 3pm ship time). A Privialge of this billiet is his own quarters. Now say there's another ensign on Beta shift (3p-11pm) they would not get there own quarters and have to shaire because they are not the department head.
Think of DS9 or submarine captains of old, they were only comanders, but they were the "Captain" of the ship or station. I think in some episode, we had a Lt. "Captain" of a runabout. Those people got the captains quarters.
Data's "Billet" is of 3rd in command. On the ship, you had Captain and Comander, then him. There were other people of higher rank than him on the ship, Troi, Crusher, Geordi, but there "Billet" was not on the command staff. Those 3 can take charge because they have undergone the training, even taking a command shift on say, Beta or Gamma shift, but there not in the ships chain of command. ( Data experienced the Ensign Kim disease of no rank promotion over the series.. I mean Troi got promoted to comander when she passed her command class, but Data doesnt??)
Now usually, a person doesn't remain an ensign for to long, maybe a year, 2 at most before there promoted, but in star trek, the billet may have a topped out rank structure. Like on Tapestry, Picard was only an Lt. because he was in the science division, or specialized division like biology. The team leader may get promoted to a higher rank, but the proletariat wont unless they become a team leader, or transfer to another track.
Now, a privlage on ship may be, better or more welll placed quaters ( away from the elevator please!) choice of shift, choice of leave time, more holodeck time,or better time choices. there are plenty of "Perks" of gaining rank or job assignment.
A Billet is .. well where you work, or a Job Title, the oft mentioned Ensign Kim has a billit of Chief of Operations ( Same as Data) on the Voyager. He works Alpha shift ( presumably 7am - 3pm ship time). A Privialge of this billiet is his own quarters. Now say there's another ensign on Beta shift (3p-11pm) they would not get there own quarters and have to shaire because they are not the department head.
Think of DS9 or submarine captains of old, they were only comanders, but they were the "Captain" of the ship or station. I think in some episode, we had a Lt. "Captain" of a runabout. Those people got the captains quarters.
Data's "Billet" is of 3rd in command. On the ship, you had Captain and Comander, then him. There were other people of higher rank than him on the ship, Troi, Crusher, Geordi, but there "Billet" was not on the command staff. Those 3 can take charge because they have undergone the training, even taking a command shift on say, Beta or Gamma shift, but there not in the ships chain of command. ( Data experienced the Ensign Kim disease of no rank promotion over the series.. I mean Troi got promoted to comander when she passed her command class, but Data doesnt??)
Now usually, a person doesn't remain an ensign for to long, maybe a year, 2 at most before there promoted, but in star trek, the billet may have a topped out rank structure. Like on Tapestry, Picard was only an Lt. because he was in the science division, or specialized division like biology. The team leader may get promoted to a higher rank, but the proletariat wont unless they become a team leader, or transfer to another track.
Now, a privlage on ship may be, better or more welll placed quaters ( away from the elevator please!) choice of shift, choice of leave time, more holodeck time,or better time choices. there are plenty of "Perks" of gaining rank or job assignment.
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Data never getting promoted always bothered me. With all he has done, his abilities, and his many years of service, he should have ended up as a full Commander.
Worf was promoted twice in 8 years.
LaForge, twice in 2 years.
Troi got a promotion in 7 years.
Riker got his command, though was offered 3 times before he finally accepted.
Even Wesley got a promotion.
Sisko, Bashir, Dax... promoted at about the same time. (Sisko does take care of his people... he made Captain, so he brought everyone else he could up the chain.)
Kira got promoted after 6 years.
Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay all got promoted. (Going from criminal to Commander and XO... I call that a promotion.)
EVERYONE from TOS got promoted. Even Janice Rand eventually made Commander.
(I did find it curious that no one from ENTERPRISE got promoted.)
But Data stays a Lt. Cmdr. for 15 years? (shakes head)
Worf was promoted twice in 8 years.
LaForge, twice in 2 years.
Troi got a promotion in 7 years.
Riker got his command, though was offered 3 times before he finally accepted.
Even Wesley got a promotion.
Sisko, Bashir, Dax... promoted at about the same time. (Sisko does take care of his people... he made Captain, so he brought everyone else he could up the chain.)
Kira got promoted after 6 years.
Janeway, Tuvok, Paris, Torres, Chakotay all got promoted. (Going from criminal to Commander and XO... I call that a promotion.)
EVERYONE from TOS got promoted. Even Janice Rand eventually made Commander.
(I did find it curious that no one from ENTERPRISE got promoted.)
But Data stays a Lt. Cmdr. for 15 years? (shakes head)
And that’s the way it should be, but I think a doing time in security and being a security chief should give you a chance for command or even operations and helm. By the way Dr. crusher was very skilled doctor. And by the way that was not an easy holographic simulation, ordering some one to die knowing very well it will happen in the future to me shows you at least have what it takes for command. Also that was the bridge officers test not the commanding officer test. For all we know that has requires you having a more balanced experience rather that just one.
Perhaps Data and Kim could start a club for disgruntled Starfleet officers. Well, at least for Kim there was (kind of) an excuse, in that there were only so many positions to hand uit, but even then I didn't see the problems in promoting him to a jr. Lieutenant after 3 years or so, even if it changes nothing for his daily work.
Data's career perhaps was stalled because (some) people clearly felt uneasy getting commands from him, as we see in Redemption. That wouldn't be fair, and probably strongly against (assumed) Starfleet principles of giving everyone a fair treatment, but it wouldn't surprise me too much.
You got that right. But considering they only had four officer ranks I’m not surprise. Although a background character that was around from the beginning got promoted to ensign in the final episode. And T’pol was given a commission so you could call that a promotion but not really since she apparently held a higher rank. So considering that she was civilian during season 3 I would say her being commission at commander was some kind of promotion.
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