I know right. I know it was probably just a joke but the fact that the chief of operations had called counselor sir is ridiculous.
Does Rank have privileges in the future?
- Thread starter Gabriel
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Yes but she still the counselor. No command experience. But I guess she is the exception. Also Beverly crushers also a good exception although something tells me she’s had more command situations than we think
In the U.S. Navy, Troi would be a Staff Corps officer, not eligible for command of a ship--period--even on a temporary basis during an emergency. A senior enlisted (CPO or PO1) person experienced with "deck duties afloat" would take over in an emergency, if there were no other line officers (either commissioned or warrant) left. Then, after the dust settled a bit, a replacement CO would be sent in.
If they wanted to show a woman in the captain's chair they should have used Tasha. On the bridge, her duties were were essentially those of a Tactical Action Officer (TAO), and that billet is filled by an unrestricted line officer, eligible to command a ship.
So, yeah, it's laughable.
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I don't get why she didn't fail the part of the test where she had to sacrifice a member of the crew. I mean in real life when you fail, you fail and then you have to wait some time (often a year ) before you can retake the whole exam again, assuming you're even allowed to retake it at all! I mean it's like she's allowed to make wild guesses until she finds the right one. That's not a way to find out if someone has a skill!
Thank you for being able to explain that pretty well. Hopefully it will help people understand
Starfleet is not the U.S. Navy. It's a multi-planetary space organisation. It's not even a military.
NuKirk took the kobyashi maru several times
Yes but it has been proven that it is run like a military. So it’s more like of a quasi-miltary.
It certainly has many of the trappings of a military. To claim that it isn't is also laughable. yes, Starfleet is more than simply an army or navy but to declare that it's not military in some substantial ways is beyond belief.
Exactly Starfleet does exploration humanitarianism and the defense of the federation. In a way it’s kinda like a modern Navy.
It's evident that Picard did not consider himself or his ship as part of a military during TNG, especially early TNG -- "Starfleet is not a military organization". If others considered it a military, then perhaps it's simply Picard's view rather than the official view of Starfleet, but what a bridge officer on Picard's ship is can't really compare with modern military organizations.
Despite Picard's outrage in "The Neutral Zone", Ralph Offenhouse was more right than wrong in his assessment that Picard ran his ship as if it were a cruise liner. It makes sense that who Picard trusts to be on the bridge follows those views. Troi was "qualified to sit in the captain's chair" not just because she "passed a test" (which presumably was a requirement from high Picard couldn't simply waive), but because Picard trusted she was capable of running his non-military ship.
Under Jelico, things would be (and were) different - it was a military ship, but while it's Picard's cruise ship, Troi being in charge makes perfect sense, and to compare it to the U.S Navy, then complain there are differences, simply proves it's not the U.S. navy.
Despite Picard's outrage in "The Neutral Zone", Ralph Offenhouse was more right than wrong in his assessment that Picard ran his ship as if it were a cruise liner. It makes sense that who Picard trusts to be on the bridge follows those views. Troi was "qualified to sit in the captain's chair" not just because she "passed a test" (which presumably was a requirement from high Picard couldn't simply waive), but because Picard trusted she was capable of running his non-military ship.
Under Jelico, things would be (and were) different - it was a military ship, but while it's Picard's cruise ship, Troi being in charge makes perfect sense, and to compare it to the U.S Navy, then complain there are differences, simply proves it's not the U.S. navy.
First of all when did I ever say it was the U.S. Navy. The fact how many times Picard got into a battle disproves that his ship is non-military. Although I am no way saying that it is a military ship under Picards leader ship because it’s more of a quasi-military ship. And don’t forget Jellico saved Picards ass. And I don’t think that picard would think of to mine the nebula like Jellico did.
Well, Picard is very much part philosopher so maybe that's his philosophical belief in what Starfleet is or what he believes it should be. It's also very odd for him to say that. The history of Starfleet is littered with wars and conflicts. You go to war with a military and Starfleet is that military
However, to go meta here for a minute, it's a TV show written for entertainment value, not for rigid adherence to tight continuity and history. A different writer could have Picard saying the opposite. That's why we have so many inconsistencies and why so many people here feel the need to come up with "imaginative" theories to explain 50+ years of continuity and other issues in a franchise that has been written, produced, and helmed by dozens of different people all with different ideas on what Star Trek should be.
Picard is not consistent with himself. He represents himself as a pacifist and a humanist but he berated Data for reviving the 20th century people, which in my opinion is the reaction of a psychopath. He's perfectly fine with letting a little girl, her family and her entire people die and only changed his mind because of a small detail: that it appeared as she had asked for help. A professor who lost a son to the Christalline entity is not allowed to seek revenge on the thing but on the other hand, it's perfectly fine to let people drift forever in space until their ship fails and they die for good!
There's never been much of an effort to differentiate them. Starfleet is organized in the same manner as the US Navy, uses the same ranks. They even eliminated Commodore and replaced it with Rear Admiral, Lower Half like the US Navy did, and only the US Navy did that. Hell, the damn ships even have the US Navy's USS prefix for the names. And when a new Captain takes command of a ship their orders are worded the exact same way as it is in the US Navy, "You are requested and required..."
More relevant to the point SolarisOne was making, in TOS Starfleet did have the same regulation as the US Navy forbidding medical officers from taking command. The only reason TNG and Dr. Crusher and Counselor Troi taking command was because they were under criticism for not having any female command officers.
Well, now we've crossed the Rubicon and opened Pandora's Box. That Argument never turns out well.
It is, strictly speaking, not a military organization. It is a naval organization. In the interest of easing communication with non-Terran species, Starfleet might have revived the distinction between military (milites) and naval (navis) forces. It would be helpful in first contact situations to say, "I am person-in-charge Picard, of the national-ship-operating organization," rather than, "I am person-in-charge Picard, of the national-taking-and-holding-territory organization."
Or maybe Starfleet ping-pongs back and forth between military and not-military as the political mood changes. It was certainly the military before Picard's day. If it transformed into not-military during Picard's career, who is to say it could not have transformed back?
Perhaps, but we can compare it to the Starfleet of TOS, in which the same line/staff officer distinction existed.
With a replicator, that can make just about anything, it is hard to find an enviable privilege that could not be shared by everyone else. Which is why I think the privileges linked to rank are more of the token kind than anything else. For instance, you could have a rare art object in your quarters but a member of the crew could have a replicated one that would look just like it even under a microscope!
Regarding Crusher's command experience... it should also be noted that she, on a pretty regular basis, has to make life and death decisiobs regarding patients, as well triage on many occasions with a LOT of wounded/dying around her. She has a lot of leadership and calm under fire time than most people give her credit, so she definitely earned her 3 pips.
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