Does Rank have privileges in the future?

[Commishsleer]

True. The idea for example that Picard would still be "Lieutenant Junior Grade", at past sixty is just absurd! It would mean that everyone in Starfleet with a rank above Lieutenant would be a hero that risked their lives to save a group of people at one point or another... That's just not possible. Even in wartime, people like that are the exception, not the rule!!!

Agreed..
Picard would still have all the abilities that made him a great captain and leader.
Unless:
He was known as a coward and Starfleet treated him treated him that way forever not giving him opportunities to shine.
He was so traumatised by the incident that he retreated into himself and didn't show any leadership qualities. But even in a science lab you can lead projects. Inspire your work colleagues.

 

[Gabriel]

Agreed..
Picard would still have all the abilities that made him a great captain and leader.
Unless:
He was known as a coward and Starfleet treated him treated him that way forever not giving him opportunities to shine.
He was so traumatised by the incident that he retreated into himself and didn't show any leadership qualities. But even in a science lab you can lead projects. Inspire your work colleagues.

Yeah but according to Riker and Deanna he was one of those officers who just does easy stuff and never really step out of the crowd long enough to lead. He was boring and unmotivated and not worth of promotion. Because starfleet does give out promotion they expect you to earn them so I guess picard never earned it although this is a lot of conversation even though the probable reason is that Q was trying to make a point so he gave picard low rank

 

[Commishsleer]

Yeah but according to Riker and Deanna he was one of those officers who just does easy stuff and never really step out of the crowd long enough to lead. He was boring and unmotivated and not worth of promotion. Because starfleet does give out promotion they expect you to earn them so I guess picard never earned it although this is a lot of conversation even though the probable reason is that Q was trying to make a point so he gave picard low rank

I think that after 20 years in Starfleet and only a junior lt Picard would have left and been back at the vineyard.

Also Picard was so pivotal to the peace of the Federation that I think that the Enterprise would have been destroyed a long time ago and that the Federation would be actively at war with the Klingon and Romulan Empires if Picard had never been a captain.

 

[Gabriel]

I think that after 20 years in Starfleet and only a junior lt Picard would have left and been back at the vineyard.

Also Picard was so pivotal to the peace of the Federation that I think that the Enterprise would have been destroyed a long time ago and that the Federation would be actively at war with the Klingon and Romulan Empires if Picard had never been a captain.

I’m sure Thomas Hollway is competent Commander. Remember no one is irreplaceable

 

[Farscape One]

Except Data.

 

[Discofan]

Except Data.

Data had two brothers (Lore and B4) but he's the only one who's neither a psychopath nor a moron... "Third time is a charm" has never been truer than in this case.

 

[J.T.B.]

Can't we just agree that Star Trek handles rank horribly? Especially enlisted.

Definitely agreed about the enlisted, and it hasn't been really imaginative, either. Roddenberry's "officer only" idea could have actually been an interesting, futuristic concept to explore. But when it came down to it, they just transplanted a 20th century military model. When they thought about it, that is, but mostly they didn't think about it. Only TMP and TWOK even considered that enlisted personnel would need insignia.

If rank had so many privileges people would be eager to become admirals instead of captains.

Of course people would be eager to become admirals. It's a more important job.

 

[Farscape One]

I think a greater number prefer to be Captain. Eddington even said so in "THE ADVERSARY".

"It's the Captain's chair everyone has their eye on. That's what I wanted when I signed up."

Admirals are important, but I think on the whole, the most good and the most one can do is being a starship captain.

How many Admirals go out exploring? Or are on the front lines? Or encounter all the new life that is out there?

Personally, I think being there at first contacts is one of the greatest privileges possible. When we do so in real life, I certainly would envy all those who got to be there.

 

[Gabriel]

Of course people would be eager to become admirals. It's a more important job.

We’ll for some not so much since admirals fly desks alot

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Only TMP and TWOK even considered that enlisted personnel would need insignia.

Even that was dubiously implemented IMO, the MM idea of enlisted all wearing the same undershirt whereas officers have a variety of colours, doesn't make any sense to me as with enlisted there is more need to know what they're qualified not less (officers - particularly line officers - will likely have at least some knowledge of [management of] most tasks whereas enlisted are liked to mostly know one role.

 

[Gabriel]

Definitely agreed about the enlisted, and it hasn't been really imaginative, either. Roddenberry's "officer only" idea could have actually been an interesting, futuristic concept to explore. But when it came down to it, they just transplanted a 20th century military model. When they thought about it, that is, but mostly they didn't think about it. Only TMP and TWOK even considered that enlisted personnel would need insignia.

funny thing o'brines rank patch from Ds9 season 4 on was actually 1 of 6 enlisted rank patches meant for the uniforms. all enlisted personnel from petty 3rd to master chief would have had rank insignia but it was cut due to budget, so you can thanks some one's greed. also while it is not much enterprise had rank insignia for crewman 3rd class and crewman 2nd, crewman 1st. and of course Fanon has made enlisted ranks for just about all uniforms if you look around.

 

[Gabriel]

Even that was dubiously implemented IMO, the MM idea of enlisted all wearing the same undershirt whereas officers have a variety of colours, doesn't make any sense to me as with enlisted there is more need to know what they're qualified not less (officers - particularly line officers - will likely have at least some knowledge of [management of] most tasks whereas enlisted are liked to mostly know one role.

well actually in TWOK while the enlisted undershirts was black the cuff and shoulder epaulets were department colors

 

[J.T.B.]

I think a greater number prefer to be Captain. Eddington even said so in "THE ADVERSARY".

"It's the Captain's chair everyone has their eye on. That's what I wanted when I signed up."

Admirals are important, but I think on the whole, the most good and the most one can do is being a starship captain.

How many Admirals go out exploring? Or are on the front lines? Or encounter all the new life that is out there?

Personally, I think being there at first contacts is one of the greatest privileges possible. When we do so in real life, I certainly would envy all those who got to be there.

That's the kind of notion that Star Trek has encouraged, because it has to hew to its dramatic formula. But it doesn't really pass the common sense test. The reason captains and crews are able to explore and make first contacts etc. is because people in positions of higher responsibility are doing the work to make sure there are enough ships in good condition in the right places with the right personnel and supplies and support facilities (and so on) to do their jobs. Their decisions have greater effect and greater consequences than the captain's, so there's no question that it's a more important job.

Just because it might involve "desks" doesn't mean that an admiral's job would not be a challenging and rewarding one, or that there would not be plenty of smart and capable officers willing to take on that challenge, even if Kirk and Picard aren't. If that were not the case, Starfleet's days as an effective organization would be numbered. I have no doubt that if enough capable captains followed Picard's example, Starfleet would have no choice but to say "You don't want a promotion? Fine, good luck in your new civilian career."

also while it is not much enterprise had rank insignia for crewman 3rd class and crewman 2nd, crewman 1st.

I never really watched that show so I wasn't sure if those were there from the beginning or came in later.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

well actually in TWOK while the enlisted undershirts was black the cuff and shoulder epaulets were department colors

Maybe, they've certainly got coloured epauletes but the three most prominent enlisted Chief Rand and Yeomans Burke and Samno all have gold epauletes whereas Rand should have grey-blue (matching Uhura) and Burke and Samno should have either Services pale blue tabs (like the mess specialists) if they are actually yeoman or dark green tabs if they are security which seems to fit their roles better.

 

[The Wormhole]

I never really watched that show so I wasn't sure if those were there from the beginning or came in later.

Enterprise had enlisted rank insignia in the first season, though they gradually abandoned them over the course of the series.

 

[Gabriel]

Maybe, they've certainly got coloured epauletes but the three most prominent enlisted Chief Rand and Yeomans Burke and Samno all have gold epauletes whereas Rand should have grey-blue (matching Uhura) and Burke and Samno should have either Services pale blue tabs (like the mess specialists) if they are actually yeoman or dark green tabs if they are security which seems to fit their roles better.

no they were department colors. I know starfleet uniforms and believe me they used the same department colors as the officers. the three enlisted may have had mistakes with there uniforms but thats common with Star Trek also in the search for Spock the two guards that met Kirk had on security uniforms that had a department color undershirt
<img src="https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/d/d9/Enlisted_crew_closeup.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20120316192127&amp;path-prefix=en" alt="Enlisted crew closeup" class="thumbimage " data-image-key="Enlisted_crew_closeup.jpg" data-image-name="Enlisted crew closeup.jpg" width="180" height="299" >
if you look at the female crewman she had epaulets that were the same color of uhura
don't forget the trainee yeoman in TWOK that blew the whistle she had the same color too.

Enterprise had enlisted rank insignia in the first season, though they gradually abandoned them over the course of the series.

not really there was a crew third class in the 4th season during the Vulcan war arc when read was getting back from the fail resume mission and a 1st or 2nd class in season 3 chosen realm. and don't forget foster in Borg episode was a third class also Jane Taylor was a second class and she was in the third season

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Ok... I guess they got it right some of the time. Rand, Burke and Samno definately had gold tabs:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20070426004621&path-prefix=en

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20110117010834&path-prefix=en

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20080503230444&path-prefix=en

AFAIK, with the exception of the unique security and waiter's variants, which did feature a department undershirt, everyone in the jumpsuits had either red or black undershirts, which I'm saying seems to be the wrong way around (officer cadets 1 colour, officers 1 colour (either the same or different than cadets), enlisted varying colours).

 

[Commishsleer]

in the Kelvin movies, Pike used his rank/influence to get Kirk promoted.

 

[J.T.B.]

Enterprise had enlisted rank insignia in the first season, though they gradually abandoned them over the course of the series.

Ah I see, so they provided for enlisted but only four officer ranks below flag? Still I give them credit for that.

not really there was a crew third class in the 4th season during the Vulcan war arc when read was getting back from the fail resume mission and a 1st or 2nd class in season 3 chosen realm. and don't forget foster in Borg episode was a third class also Jane Taylor was a second class and she was in the third season

So, mostly abandoned.

 

[Gabriel]

Ah I see, so they provided for enlisted but only four officer ranks below flag? Still I give them credit for that.



So, mostly abandoned.

No they just didn’t show them because they were probably too lazy or didn’t care but i don’t believe they deliberately abandon it also there are others like captain archers guard in twilight was crew man 1st class and there was a science third class in late season 2 (the breach) and a science crewman 2nd class in the crossing also crewmen Baird had enlisted insignia but I cannot see it to tell if it’s 1st, 2nd, 3rd. Crewman second class Allison in season 2 and crewman 2nd class Cunningham in season 2. All of these are after season 2 so they didn’t use it as much but I don’t think abandon works etheir. They just put it on the back burner or they were just too lazy