So they're essentially admitting that the Prime timeline is whatever they say it is at any given moment and that this universe isn't the universe prior to the Temporal Cold War.
How is that any different than treating it as a multiverse?
Spoilers Does moving the Eugenics Wars into the 21st century fundamentally change things?
- Thread starter Citiprime
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So they're essentially admitting that the Prime timeline is whatever they say it is at any given moment and that this universe isn't the universe prior to the Temporal Cold War.
How is that any different than treating it as a multiverse?
actually the khan folder just says its a funding report from 1996, doesnt mention or imply anything about it happening then, and pike specifically says " We called it the Second Civil War, then the Eugenics War, and finally just World War III." That directly implies it was in the 21st century. Which is fine by me, Dates change nothing as far as the overall story goes and makes more sense then it being in the 90s anyway imo
Historically 1996 is when Khan fled Earth.
That what we saw was a "funding report" for "Project Khan".
That means that 1996 the US Government was trying to figure out how much it would cost to make a superman, and if they got their shit together as quickly as possible, that means that Khan is 28 in 2024.
Stolen from Jorg on twitter:
Unless SNW established more, it seems Adam Soong is looking at old classified reports written in 1996 about "project Khan". The report is an after-the-point review of what occured, and I took it as a subtle-as-a-sledgehammer nod at the ENT Augment arc, which has it's own very unsubtle nod at the creation of Data at the end.
Artistic license/Production error IMO
You're assuming that there won't be some incident that fits that description between now and then ...
Again, how are we sure the project funding report isn't some after-the-point thing? The dates on the tabs even say 1992 to 1996.
What it implies most importantly to me is that Khan Noonien-Singh was a U.S. funded project.
What it implies most importantly to me is that Khan Noonien-Singh was a U.S. funded project.
If it was supposed to be a funding report for Khan, wouldn't the dates go back a lot further than 1992? He looks to be in his 30's or 40's in "Space Seed". Which would put the project back to almost the end of World War II.
When I first saw that, I took it as possibly implying that the project was the US government operation which forced Khan out of power and into space given the 1996 date.
Good point. Khan would have been born in the 70's at the latest, unless Augments grow extra fast (which "Natural Selection" does confirm as a possibility)
I quite like that idea. Like a Project Putin today, a long term plan to launch him into deep space.
In some ways the 1996 date almost aligns with the beginning of the American Cultural Wars. Pat Buchanan declared it in 1992: "There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself." The movement led to the "Contract with America" movement and a revamped Republican victory in the midterms in 1994. By 1996 with the reelection of of Bill Clinton, the cycle of stalemate and political conflict began that has not abated in the United States.
1996 saw the ouster of Mobutu in Zaire leading to a series of Congolese civil wars which have never entirely ended and in which so far over five million people have died, to the complete yawning of the rest of the world, and yet it plays out repeatedly as a proxy war for the world's participants.
1996 is also the year that Putin's dacha burned, without him in it, leading to the formation of Ozero and Putin's entrance into public life as an advisor (and eventual public replacement) of Boris Yeltsin.
1996, Ukraine adopted a new constitution, and gave up its nuclear arsenal in the Budapest Memorandum in return for a promise never to be invaded or threatned by the Russian Federation.
Oh yes, we never know what we look at fully until we look backward in retreat and dug in to our miserable present day. 1996 was a pivotal year.
I hope now that a little more light has been shed on Trek's murky 90's through 2070s that it can remain not too far filled in. Picard made clear that even despite the similarities, their 2024 is not going to be ours. It remains a seperate universe, and one still more advanced than the one we live in. We aren't going to launch anyone to Europa in two years, for instance, certainly not from Vandenberg AFB.
I thuoght the Khan reference was to imply that 2024's Soong would focus his efforts on working with augment DNA, leading to the Soong we see in Enterprise.
Which could lead to people like Colonel Green.
As a sort of compromise: Maybe Khan was created in '96 and then the government managed to keep him locked up or hibernating or frozen or such until the Eugenics Wars in the 2020s.
Would be kind of weird for them to be funding Project Khan from 1992 to 1996 if nothing were happening. But, again, what would have been happening is unestablished.
That is one interpretation. But the line is so vague it could be interpreted a lot of ways. It could just as easily mean that the Eugenics Wars of the 1990s bled into the 2nd U.S. Civil War which bled into World War III.
But taken in context -- and remember, both "Farewell" and "Strange New Worlds" premiered on the same date and were written by the same guy, Akiva Goldsman -- I think the idea is to be strategically ambiguous on exactly when the Eugenics Wars took place so that people can interpret either scenario as valid.
Given that the dates of Project Khan coincide with the years Spock declared he reigned in "Space Seed," and given the general history of the United States government vis a vis dictators in the developing world, I think it's far more likely that the U.S. government installed Khan than that they were fighting against him.
I see it the same way Markonian does. It's the Eugenics Wars, plural. There could've been one spate of wars in the 1990s and another in the 2020s-30s leading up to WWIII, and future history conflates them as part of a single larger process.
He can't have been. Khan wasn't four years old when he was exiled in 1996 (as Khan himself explicitly said he was in The Wrath of Khan, making the date quite unambiguous despite what the Picard producers claim). Obviously he must have been born in the '60s or early '70s. 1992-6 was the span of his rule, not his entire existence.
Besides, let's not forget that Khan was not the only Augment. He was one of hundreds, probably, that simultaneously took power around the world in '92. (Spock said 80-90 of them went missing after the war and their disappearance was covered up. That implies that there were considerably more than that number in total.) Khan was the most successful of the lot, but the project that created him wasn't exclusively about him, and it makes no sense for it to have been named after him.
So the logical interpretation of a "Project Khan" running from 1992-6 was that it was a project started after Khan took power, either one that was studying him to understand what he was and recreate it, or a project that Khan himself started or assisted with in order to carry forward the Augment program.
He can't have been. Khan wasn't four years old when he was exiled in 1996 (as Khan himself explicitly said he was in The Wrath of Khan, making the date quite unambiguous despite what the Picard producers claim). Obviously he must have been born in the '60s or early '70s. 1992-6 was the span of his rule, not his entire existence.
Besides, let's not forget that Khan was not the only Augment. He was one of hundreds, probably, that simultaneously took power around the world in '92. (Spock said 80-90 of them went missing after the war and their disappearance was covered up. That implies that there were considerably more than that number in total.) Khan was the most successful of the lot, but the project that created him wasn't exclusively about him, and it makes no sense for it to have been named after him.
So the logical interpretation of a "Project Khan" running from 1992-6 was that it was a project started after Khan took power, either one that was studying him to understand what he was and recreate it, or a project that Khan himself started or assisted with in order to carry forward the Augment program.
Edit - Totally wrong post! Don't chat online when stoned!
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That has not been proven.
There may be some vague references here and there that they MAY have been moved, but there are also hints that they have not.
In any case, "Space Seed" and TWOK establish specific calendar years for the Eugenics Wars. Those can't simply be dismissed out of hand. Calendar years are definitive, in ways that vague references like "200 years ago" are not.
And I really don't care what the showrunners say. Unless it specifically happens in an episode, then it's irrelevant.
No, I'm not seeing how anything changes. Whether the Eugenics Wars were fought in the 1990s or the 2030s has no impact on when Zefram Cochrane's warp flight happened, how the Federation fared against the Romulans or the Dominion or how badly the Burn crippled the galaxy. At worst, a few tie-ins have been negated, but that's life for a tie in.
It's not just the tie-ins. Episodes and movies have mentioned the 1992-96 dates. How do you explain THAT?
Not only did Spock say that the Eugenics Wars concluded in 1996, Khan said exactly the same thing (in TWOK). And I think he would know.
Yeah, yeah, I know, "records are fragmentary" and all that crap. But honestly I'm getting really
ing tired of that line being constantly used as an excuse.And don't even get me started on "wibbly wobbly timey wimey".
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