Do you want the Spock/Uhura romance to continue in Trek XII?

[Mrs_Whatsit]

Actually, no. Let's focus on the bedrock Spock, Kirk, McCoy relationship, instead. We don't need Uhura playing Yoko Ono.

Kirk: Mr. Spock, would you like to join Dr. McCoy and me on a camping trip to Yosemite when we get back to Earth?
McCoy: We'll roast marsh mellons.
Spock: Captain, doctor, the invitation is most gracious, but Nyota and I have plans.
McCoy: Oh?
Spock: Yes. We are going to visit her relatives in the African Republic for a week, then we're going to a spa in India, and finally shopping in Tokyo.
McCoy: Boy, are you whipped.

Best scene ever. This needs to be filmed stat.

And yes, I'm in favor of more Spock/Uhura in XII, but I agree with Pauln6 that there'll probably be a love interest for Kirk that takes center stage on the romance front instead. No concrete reason to believe that, but it just seems due.

 

[Pauln6]

Lol - not 'bigotry' per se - I have nothng against half-vulcans or humans from the united states of africa - but I'll confess to a bit of bias - if I'm honest I was always more of a Rand fan!

Now the Star Wars examples are good examples! However, in each case they involved one story aspect to set up the relationship and then a second story to show obstacles being thrown in the way of the lovers and how they succeed or not (Han/Jabba etc). Same with Transformers, same with Spiderman. Plus you could hardly call Anakin and Padme's doomed relationship a success! In all of those films, except maybe Spiderman, I would class those relationships as C-plots and there was even talk that Spiderman 4 was going to dump MJ so that Spidey could hook up with a Black Cat-style character instead.

So yes, I do think there are story ideas to be mined with Spock and Uhura but many of them will involve difficulties. I genuinely want Spock to regain some of his compsure. If Uhura spends all her time getting him to stay in touch with his feelings then it will end in disaster and I think she has to realise that in the same way that Amanda did. She has to learn to appreciate the logic and not get huffy when he tells her that her bum DOES look big in that mini skirt (not much chance of that with Saldana though - she is well skinny). If Spock's emotions start to affect his command decisions then that is an aspect that I would like to see explored. Can he overcome that and still be the man she wants? Will they be faced with the choice of finishing the realtionship or transferring to another ship? There is potential there but it's still a C-plot.

 

[micron]

I said Han/Leia! That is the example you were looking for. Why bring into disscussion Han/Jabba?(was there something romantic between them I failed to see) or Anakin/Padme.

Han and Leia had a movie arc that spanned over three movies. This is a perfect example of how a well thought out romance does not diminish the experience of a science fiction movie. So what if there are difficulties in the relationships? Han was frozen in carbonite, for heaven’s sake. Did Leia walk away at the first sign of trouble? She did everything to rescue him. It is how one deals with the difficulties that matters. I do not believe that Spock/Uhura are so immature or shallow they would run in opposite direction at the first sigh of trouble. They would be able to work them out (especially in this timeline).

If you want Kirk in a relationship (or staying a womanizer) I am fine with it. He and his relationship/s can even be plot A. However, I want it be made clear as well that there is plot B represented by Uhura/Spock and their commitment to each other in the sequel.

 

[Too Much Fun]

to Too Much Fun - pardon me but for someone like spock loosing his mother and the planet is not a 2 hour thing to get it over with. You are painting him as an insensitive jerk playing around with uhura's feelings. I see Spock foremost as a man of integrity and sensitivity who would not play around with someone’s emotions. And it is plain in the movie that he has emotions for uhura.

Nah, I didn't mean it/see it that way at all. All I meant is that I don't really see what they had as a romance/relationship...but that doesn't mean I also saw it as Spock toying with Uhura/using her.

I just saw it as her helping him through a difficult time (his mother's death/his planet's destruction) with some affection and sympathy and him being genuinely grateful for it. I didn't see a lot of evidence that he had feelings for her.

Obviously she admired him for his intelligence (as an instructor she could look up to) and was sad to see him in pain over his loss and he appreciated her kindness. I don't see how that indicates they are or could naturally become a full-fledged couple.

The whole idea makes me uncomfortable too. It's like if someone close to me died and a girl I'm friends with embraces me to make me feel better, isn't it kind of unscrupulous for me to hope/expect we're going to develop a romantic relationship based on that?

 

[Agenda]

I didn't see a lot of evidence that he had feelings for her.

Spock: In the event that I am unsuccessful, please tell Lieutenant Uhura...

Kirk: Spock. It'll work.

Hmmm...what do you think he was about to say? I mean, yeah, we'll never know for sure, but what would be the point of putting in this line if not to signify something pretty deep?

 

[Too Much Fun]

Well, that's a fair point. He could have just been saying he wanted her to know he was thankful for her support, though.

 

[Pauln6]

I said Han/Leia! That is the example you were looking for. Why bring into disscussion Han/Jabba?(was there something romantic between them I failed to see) or Anakin/Padme.

Han and Leia had a movie arc that spanned over three movies. This is a perfect example of how a well thought out romance does not diminish the experience of a science fiction movie. So what if there are difficulties in the relationships? Han was frozen in carbonite, for heaven’s sake. Did Leia walk away at the first sign of trouble? She did everything to rescue him. It is how one deals with the difficulties that matters. I do not believe that Spock/Uhura are so immature or shallow they would run in opposite direction at the first sigh of trouble. They would be able to work them out (especially in this timeline).

Their romance was only over 2 movies. In Part 5, it was developed in the first half of the movie, and then they were torn apart in the second half (I meant that the Han/Jabba sub-plot is the obstacle the lovers have to overcome). In part 6 the first half is overcoming said obstacle, and only in the second half of Part 6 do we see them reach a stable point.

However, I would still say that the romance was a C-plot at best. Even when they were raiding Jabba's palace it only formed a very small part of the overall dynamic. Overall, the A-plot is the Empire/Rebel theme, the B-plot is Luke's training/relationship with Vader, the C-plot is the romance.

If I'm honest the love affair in Empire is one of my all-time favourite movie romances - who doesn't have tear in their eye when Leia tells him she loves him just as he's about to 'die'. Awesome stuff. Mind you, I also adored the love story in King Fu Hustle and that was just a deaf girl with a lollipop so don't take too much notice of me...

I thought the romance in NuTrek was good - it certainly caught me off guard. I don't want to see it vanish but nor do I want to see it elevated above where it is now. A C-plot

I think romance usually works best as a B-plot when you have fewer main characters.

 

[micron]

Man, I should really stop comming back to this board. I have a paper due on Wednesday and going back and forth between my paper and this board is distracting

Anyway, this is a response to Too Much Fun

Your reaction to Spock/Uhura as a couple would be justified if there really was not indication/suggestion that they had some kind of a relationship going on before the movie. They were not just friends, they were more. She came to him in the turbolift scene as "more" than just a friend. If she wasn't his reaction to her would be different. That he returned her kiss speaks volumes. However, if you wish to dismiss this kiss there are other instances where he shows that Uhura is more to him than just a friend. Them kissing in the transport room is an example. Basically, they decided to come out and declare themselves as a couple to the crew and to the audience (in case we missed earlier hints). And on Nerada, when he is getting ready for a suicide mission he wants Kirk to give message to Uhura. To Uhura! Not to his dad or anyone else. Do you think he wanted to tell her that their relationship was a joke and to move on? I do not think so. When he is beamed back to the Enterprise he looks for Uhura and grabs her hand in relief (it is very brief but it is there). Please watch the movie again with an open mind and no baggage.

Forgive me, but I have to put you on the spot now. You say that the whole idea of Spock/Uhura makes you uncomfortable. Why? It is the most honest part of the movie. If you want to argue about being uncomfortable, how about the "hero" Kirk sleeping with the green girl so he can successfully cheat on the Kobayashy Maru (spelling?) test. Where is integrity in that? Why is no one uncomfortable about that?

 

[micron]

Pauln6
are you throwing me a bone?
if i let you have kirk and his romance/s you will let me have spock/uhura?

 

[Pauln6]

Pauln6
are you throwing me a bone?
if i let you have kirk and his romance/s you will let me have spock/uhura?

Lol ok then - deal. And I will be annoyed if they do nothing with the the Spock/Uhura dynamic. While I was irritated a little that they portrayed them as slightly unprofessional (i.e. taking time to snog in front of the captain when they were about to depart on a vital and urgent mission) I do agree that the relationship overall was indeed one of the most honest and realistic parts of the film, right down to the way that she asked him if he was ok in the turbolift - it was a really, really loaded question because she truly knows this guy and knows how deeply he is capable of feeling while striving not to show it. Saldana even played with a lot of tension as if she was afraid of what his answer might be. She knows as well as Spock Prime that he might be 'emotionally compromised'. Very subtle and very well-played by the actors.

Now we just need to start a thread about romance for Keenser. I hear that Chapel is single these days...

 

[KirkSpockTOSFan]

Yes,I love to see where thier relationship will head to.

 

[Franklin]

I keep thinking of Pine saying that while Kirk is a flirt, he's also a workaholic, and that's why he never had a sustained relationship. If being a workaholic applies to Kirk, then it should apply to Spock times two. If Spock can maintain a healthy romance and perform his professional duties to the upmost, then why can't Kirk? That's the contradiction I see, here.
OK, it's not like Starfleet officers don't have relationships (or even spouses) and successful careers, it's just that Kirk (and Spock) seemed essentially married to Starfleet.
I think it would be in keeping with Spock's character for him to realize that splitting time between Uhura and his duties would mean neither could be performed "efficiently," and he'd (perhaps reluctantly) choose duty over his personal pleasure (citing the needs of the many, and all).

Come to think of it, why would it be good for Uhura to accept a partner who can never really give her all of his attention? How satisfying is that? And, can she actually always be there for Spock? I mean, she's in the same trap here. She's an incredibly dedicated person trying to have a strong personal relationship. It would be against the odds for such a relationship to work out. I'd think both of them may realize that.
They may acknowledge a warmth for each other that lasts. It would never be unrequited love (like Spock Prime towards Chapel), but it may never get past them realizing they should stay just "good friends," either.

 

[micron]

Pauln6,
Thank you. (shake hands)
Sometimes the hardest thing is to see another's point of view as equally valid as your own - thank you again for being willing to make room on your bench for me as well.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Sure, why not?

 

[Wynterhawk]

It seems like they were having this very same discussion at trekmovie.com.

 

[Too Much Fun]

Man, I should really stop comming back to this board. I have a paper due on Wednesday and going back and forth between my paper and this board is distracting

Anyway, this is a response to Too Much Fun

Your reaction to Spock/Uhura as a couple would be justified if there really was not indication/suggestion that they had some kind of a relationship going on before the movie. They were not just friends, they were more. She came to him in the turbolift scene as "more" than just a friend. If she wasn't his reaction to her would be different. That he returned her kiss speaks volumes. However, if you wish to dismiss this kiss there are other instances where he shows that Uhura is more to him than just a friend. Them kissing in the transport room is an example. Basically, they decided to come out and declare themselves as a couple to the crew and to the audience (in case we missed earlier hints). And on Nerada, when he is getting ready for a suicide mission he wants Kirk to give message to Uhura. To Uhura! Not to his dad or anyone else. Do you think he wanted to tell her that their relationship was a joke and to move on? I do not think so. When he is beamed back to the Enterprise he looks for Uhura and grabs her hand in relief (it is very brief but it is there). Please watch the movie again with an open mind and no baggage.

Forgive me, but I have to put you on the spot now. You say that the whole idea of Spock/Uhura makes you uncomfortable. Why? It is the most honest part of the movie. If you want to argue about being uncomfortable, how about the "hero" Kirk sleeping with the green girl so he can successfully cheat on the Kobayashy Maru (spelling?) test. Where is integrity in that? Why is no one uncomfortable about that?

I think the main difference between our reactions to the Spock/Uhura thing is you're just seeing more there than I did. Maybe it's because I've only seen the movie twice (have you seen it several times?), but I just didn't interpret their relationship as something that had obviously begun long before she started kissing him on the two occasions you mentioned.

Like I said, I think she kissed him once to help him with his grief after his mother and planet were gone, and another time to make Kirk jealous just because Kirk was a bit obnoxious hitting on her. That stuff like him wanting to send her a message and that hand grab are also things that can be interpreted differently. You see them as definite signs that they are 'together', but I'm not so sure. As stated previously, I consider the possibility that he would have just wanted to thank her for supporting him through his grief.

It will be interesting to see where they go with this in the sequel, because I honestly don't know what to expect. I could see it going either way with the relationship being much more out in the open and undoubtedly 'legitimate' than it was in "Star Trek" (2009) or being dropped all together.

The relationship was very subtle and open for different interpretations. Yours is that there was a lot more to it than I saw, and that's fine. I think we'll find out for sure, once and for all, how 'real' it is in the sequel, depending on which direction the writers take of the two I've described. I wasn't uncomfortable with the Kirk thing because it was total comic relief.

The Spock and Uhura thing was played seriously, so it's more likely to generate controversy from those who disagree with it. I think what made me uncomfortable about it is my interpretation that it seemed to start simply because Spock's mother died and planet was destroyed. Kind of an ugly way for a romance to come to fruition, don't you think?

 

[micron]

to Too Much Fun


I watched the movie several times. Since I already gave you the reasons why I believe there was more between Spock/Uhura I will not repeat myself. However, if you do not want to believe me, please, watch the movie again. Watch it with the commentaries on and listed to what J.J., Bob Orci, etc. have to say on the matter. If you still want to debate the issue afterward I will gladly accommodate you.

 

[Pauln6]

They were definitely at it while at the Acadamy. Why else would Spock be concerned about displaying favouratism?

 

[snakespeare]

It was completely unprofessional and I do not think Spock is a good person anymore.

 

[DevilEyes]

NO.

It was a mistake. Let it go down the memory hole. If there has to be a romantic interest for Spock, let it be Chapel and let it be low-key.

Hell no. Please no Chapel, and definitely not as a love interest for Spock. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, PROPHETS, Q, THE ORGANIANS AND LOGIC, NO!!!

One of the best things the movie did was go for Spock/Uhura instead for the whiny pathetic stalker unrequited love thing with Chapel... I always wished that TOS had done the same.