do you think TOS should have been remastered?

[UnknownSample]

Back when I was against the remastering totally, no one agreed with me. Now I've had a sort of turn-around, and plenty of people are now against it , if not most. A lot of people.

As long as Remastered continues not to be a replacement for the original, but just an alternative, it turns out to be a great way to re-experience the episodes, with not just the dazzling planet surfaces, but the sharper and m ore realistic seeming look of the actors' scenes.

The video game look of the Enterprise bothered me, originally. Its being grey rather than white bothered me. The changing of the angles from which the ship was shot too. I had to stop worrying about posterity and whether we would lose original Trek. I just relaxed and took it in. Now the space sequences are breathtaking, the problems aren't very visible after all. The CGI isn't so jarring when I tell myself these are the same events in space, viewed from different angles, mostly. Not that much changing of what was.

There are still travesties: the space paramecium as they enter... the garish, unpoetic nova blast at the end of All Our Yesterdays... the barrier at the edge of the galaxy.

So I can see as the years pass furthers attempts to fiddle with everything with no one definitive version. Eventually we'll be able to tailor our own versions out of the various pieces of whatever versions are out there.

 

[johnnybear]

The one thing I never liked personally was the screen showing the nacelles with the planet in the background!
JB

 

[Kemaiku]

The problem is not that it's CGI. It's that it's baaaaaaaad CGI.

Every shot of the remastered Enterprise should look as good as the CGI Defiant from "In A Mirror, Darkly." But the shots of the Enterprise don't come close to that quality.

You get what you pay for, and it was done on the cheap. And that's how it looks.... cheap.

I know, I'm all for a CGI remaster, but wanted better than the half-assed effort we got. But someday, fans might be able to do better themselves. Or Paramount/CBS might make a much better effort for a 4K release in a few years time.

 

[Warped9]

^^ Some fans have already done better.

 

[RAMA]

The problem is not that it's CGI. It's that it's baaaaaaaad CGI.

Every shot of the remastered Enterprise should look as good as the CGI Defiant from "In A Mirror, Darkly." But the shots of the Enterprise don't come close to that quality.

You get what you pay for, and it was done on the cheap. And that's how it looks.... cheap.

It's designed to be "low key" and since it holds up at 1080p very easily in detai onl 55 and 60" screens it's still good CGI.

As I posted a few months ago, I don't really watch TOS much anymore, but I put on Immunity Syndrome for a particular reason, and was literally blown away by a cinematic, sweeping shot of the Enterprise almost right off the bat. This shot was only impressive in the new version, not the old.

Anyway, it's self-evident in the sampling of pics I posted which is better on a technical level when you remove nostalgia from the equation.

 

[Warped9]

Something can be technically perfect and still not look right. That notion could be lost on RAMA.

 

[BillJ]

Anyway, it's self-evident in the sampling of pics I posted which is better on a technical level when you remove nostalgia from the equation.

Why can't you handle that some folks have a different opinion than you?

 

[RAMA]

Something can be technically perfect and still not look right. That notion could be lost on RAMA.

Except I see the evidence in glorious, upscaled 4k on the big tv.

Back when I was against the remastering totally, no one agreed with me. Now I've had a sort of turn-around, and plenty of people are now against it , if not most. A lot of people.

As long as Remastered continues not to be a replacement for the original, but just an alternative, it turns out to be a great way to re-experience the episodes, with not just the dazzling planet surfaces, but the sharper and m ore realistic seeming look of the actors' scenes.

The video game look of the Enterprise bothered me, originally. Its being grey rather than white bothered me. The changing of the angles from which the ship was shot too. I had to stop worrying about posterity and whether we would lose original Trek. I just relaxed and took it in. Now the space sequences are breathtaking, the problems aren't very visible after all. The CGI isn't so jarring when I tell myself these are the same events in space, viewed from different angles, mostly. Not that much changing of what was.

There are still travesties: the space paramecium as they enter... the garish, unpoetic nova blast at the end of All Our Yesterdays... the barrier at the edge of the galaxy.

So I can see as the years pass furthers attempts to fiddle with everything with no one definitive version. Eventually we'll be able to tailor our own versions out of the various pieces of whatever versions are out there.

No, there's no change, there's still an extremely small number of hangers on who will tell you that FX from 1966 are better than FX from 2006, defying all logic! I mean I almost felt like a bully picking on a skinny kid when I posted the comparison images.

RAMA

 

[RAMA]

Why can't you handle that some folks have a different opinion than you?

I DO accept that you prefer the old FX. The thought you watch the old FX at home bothers me not one bit.

When you argue the new FX are worse or they stand out too much (whichever mood you are in that particular day) then I may have an issue with it.

RAMA

 

[Kemaiku]

Why can't you handle that some folks have a different opinion than you?

*shrug* he wants to defend progressive upgrades of visual enhancement and cinematography, just a little too...agressively.

I've always defended the remastering *effort* but I'm finding it harder to say anything for the route they took with it. It flows better, some of the upgradeds shots are impressive still, and I like the little touches they added.

But it looks more and more 'off' with each passing year, and there are some embarrasing mistakes throughout, even if there are no technical flaws in the shot, it still feels clumsy.

Projects like that were rare when this was done, and they kept changing their minds over various aspects, asked the wrong group to make it, went for a nostaglic/modern mix that didn't give the final impression they wanted.

So for a 4K release, I'd hope they do ask Doug to come in on it. Take a good long look at it and go for a good high quality realistic look for the Enterprise first then build around that.

And keep the Blurays option of the original and new versions of each episode.

 

[BillJ]

Good:

This is the biggest problem with TOS-R, the uneven quality even within episodes. Does the Constellation look better? Yes. But what's up with this particular screen cap? We're obviously picking an extreme example from an effects heavy episode that didn't have a lot of money when done in the 60's.

The effects for the rest of the episode? Especially the Doomsday Machine? Not so much. It also doesn't help they have the Enterprise buzzing around like a fighter craft, it simply doesn't match the series.

The biggest disappointment? The Enterprise herself. It never did "look right". Always looking washed out with lighting coming from every angle.

There is a technical aspect and an artistic aspect to the effects of TOS and TOS-R. From a technical aspect, one was model work, one CGI, which is two different disciplines. So it's tough to say one is "technically" better since they weren't playing the same game. Artistically? I'll take the original effects 95% of the time over what was offered in TOS-R.

I'm not against TOS-R, never was. I'm not a blindly loyal person. I would like an actual SFX company to take a stab at redoing the effects.

 

[Kemaiku]

Something along the lines of this:

Would have been better.

 

[DonIago]

^On my current monitor, at least, I'd say that looks rather washed-out on the secondary hull. Unless that's the intention.

 

[Kemaiku]

That particular one does have a strong white light, but there are other images of it (VektorVisuals) that show the proper tone.

It's just an example, in the show itself that model wouldn't be lit as brightly as that.

 

[johnnybear]

Apart from the odd scene I prefer the original effects! The only trouble I have with them is the earth or earth type planets which look like a atlas globe complete with individual land masses and green water rather than a bluey white sphere with deserts in the middle!
JB

 

[Indysolo]

I'm happy to have the original shows in high definition on Blu-ray. When I watch those it's with the original effects in mono. I do on occasion watch with the new CG effects on Netflix or Amazon when I'm feeling lazy and they're mostly fine.

There weren't many shots of the original Enterprise model and it would have been nice if CBS Digital had spent the time and resources trying to perfectly replicate them instead of the revisionist approach they took. The original shots of the Enterprise are all cataloged here.

Neil

 

[Marsden]

Are you talking about Trouble With Tribbles or maybe mixing it up with Trials and Tribble-ations, where they stopped Spock from speaking his line in the footage taken from Mirror, Mirror?

I mean the last scene with Cyrano Jones on the station.

This was the original version:
JONES: It would take years.
SPOCK: Seventeen point nine, to be exact.
JONES: Seventeen point nine years.
KIRK: Consider it Job security.
JONES: Captain, you're a hard man. All right! All right!
KIRK: You'll do it?
JONES: I'll do it.
SPOCK: He'll do it.

This is the remastered
JONES: It would take years.
SPOCK: Seventeen point nine, to be exact.
JONES: Seventeen point nine years.
KIRK: Consider it Job security.
JONES: Captain, you're a hard man. All right! All right!
KIRK: You'll do it?
JONES: I'll do it.

Why would they take out that little line? And worst of all as far as revisionism is concerned, Nimoy's mouth clearly is in the shot an you can see he says it. It's stupid all around to delete the audio.
Did someone think this little joke was out of character for Spock?
I don't and really, it's funny as anything in the episode, but it's really not like Spock is joking, rather he's stating the obvious.

 

[STEPhon IT]

The one thing I never liked personally was the screen showing the nacelles with the planet in the background!
JB

I didn't mind it. It was interesting to see how fast can move away from a planet on impulse power. I thought the cg team did some fine work on "The Squire of Gothos." Just to show these episodes can improve when the effects are done well.

 

[Mytran]

What frame are you talking about? I went looking and saw this, but it's more like the saucer is overlaying the neck:
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x00hd/thecagehd0035.jpg

Oh thanks. Now I'm never going to be able to unsee that!

The one thing I never liked personally was the screen showing the nacelles with the planet in the background!
JB

Yeah, it's like they're still using actual cameras to relay the images! Sensor array, anyone?

 

[Maurice]

Thank you. My guess for this "worst" scene was the CGI hangar deck, especially in "The Galileo Seven" when there's a slight match-up problem regarding a second shuttle:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x16hd/thegalileosevenhd022.jpg

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x16hd/thegalileosevenhd027.jpg

It's pretty obvious that the shots were assigned to two different artists, and they weren't on speaking terms.

It also sucks that in the first shot the foreground shuttle is clearly sitting atop apple boxes because it's too high in the frame relative to the one about to launch. Note you can see the top of the b.g. one but not the f.g. one. That's awful, like someone decided to add a second shuttle after the camera move had been worked out and stuck it in there without regards to where the floor was.

So yeah, this:

Ia better than this:

But not as good as THIS.