Do you think Star Trek needed a reboot?

[Greg Cox]

Well, I don't care about the public and more importantly, they don't care about Star Trek.

Gotta disagree with you there. STAR TREK was never meant to be an exclusive, elitist club meant only for the true believers. The idea is not to write off the rest of the world, especially since the world is full of people with a casual interest in Trek, who enjoy an occasional episode or movie (or novel), but may not know it backwards and forward like we do.

And you know what? That's fine. The "public" has just as much right to a fun STAR TREK movie as we do. STAR TREK doesn't just belong to us Trekkies, nor should the movies and TV shows cater to us exclusively.

STAR TREK deserves the biggest audience possible.

 

[DalekJim]

STAR TREK deserves the biggest audience possible.

I believe that the more you dumb Star Trek down for the widest audience possible then the less it actually resembles Star Trek. The general public don't really like sci-fi or fantasy all that much. They LOVE mindless action though and to appease the public, the films will focus on that instead of what I like. I don't want dune buggy chases or lens flare. I'd be satisfied with the Enterprise going to a new world and making first contact with an interesting new alien culture.

Star Trek is a huge franchise with fans that want different things so there will undoubtedly be those that can look at the Into Darkness trailer and feel satisfied. I am not one of those people though, and think it's a sad state of affairs when a Star Trek trailer resembles one for a superhero or Transformers movie.

Just my opinion, yo.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

I'm not exactly missing the meetings. Didn't they have an overhead projector in VI?

"Now you see here Praxis.."

 

[DalekJim]

I'm not exactly missing the meetings.

I honestly find meetings and hearings more entertaining than the action scenes in Trek. Hence why I'm always suspicious if somebody thinks the movie First Contact is entertaining while the show's episode The Measure of a Man is boring.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm fairly sure Luke Skywalker had little to no marquee value when Star Wars was released but that did okay.

There's a difference between the eleventh movie in a series and the first. Kirk and Spock's marquee value was built up over decades. To many people they are synonymous with Star Trek. If this was the first Star Trek movie ever made, with no TV series proceeding it, you might have a point.

Marquee value with who? If they are synonymous with Star Trek, is that good, or just something else the marketing department had to overcome? Personally I think he has point anyway

.

People who go to the movies. From a marketing standpoint Kirk and Spock are a safer bet than Picard and Data, Sisko and Kira, Janeway and Seven or Archer and T'Pol.

Not really. Star Wars and Luke were unknown in 1977. Folks went in no knowlege of either one. Star Trek has been around for decades and is part of our culture. Even if people call him Dr. Spock, they have a vague idea who Spock is.

And they won't care until you show them stories and people they can or want to care about, just like any other movie or TV show etc. Even marquee value will only take you so far.

And positive reviews and buzz will take you the rest of the way.

That would just be TNG redux. All TNG did was peal the labels off of TOS and put them on different bottles and then change the dates. Why use the knock off when you can use the originals?

So instead of doing TNG, they should have just remade TOS, back in the day? What I think is being suggested is it would be a Trek for our time, as presumably TNG was when it came out.

Yeah actually they should have, but I doubt the movie folks would have gone for that

What would make it a "Trek for our time"? Any show would reflect the time in which it is made. A rebooted TOS made in the 80/90 is not going to be a copy of the 60s version any more the ST09 was.

All TNG did was peal the labels off of TOS and put them on different bottles and then change the dates.

Strongly disagree. TOS and TNG are very, very different shows. Both excellent though.

You can still see the TOS DNA in TNG. Saying its 100 years in the future and throwing a Klingon on the bridge isn't much of a difference. It was in many ways Phase II with some name changes. And Phase II was a continuation of TOS.

The differences are mainly from the times they were produced.

 

[Greg Cox]

Well, to be fair, movie trailers are always going to play up the action and eye candy instead of the more quiet, contemplative scenes. There has never been an earnest discussion of the Prime Directive in a STAR TREK movie trailer and there never will never be.

Go back at look at the original trailer for THE WRATH OF KHAN. It's all spaceship battles and special effects. "At the end of the universe lies the beginning of . . . vengeance!"

And action has always been part of Star Trek. As I've pointed out before, even "The Cage" has Pike fighting a giant furry barbarian and blasting a hole in his cage with his laser pistol. And the other Trek pilot ended with Kirk in a fist-fight with Gary Mitchell . . . .

The best Trek combines ideas and action and emotion and drama . . . and a healthy dose of fun. It should be smart pop entertainment aimed at everybody, not just us diehard cultists.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well, to be fair, movie trailers are always going to play up the action and eye candy instead of the more quiet, contemplative scenes. There has never been an earnest discussion of the Prime Directive in a STAR TREK movie trailer and there never will never be.

Go back at look at the original trailer for THE WRATH OF KHAN. It's all spaceship battles and special effects. "At the end of the universe likes the beginning of . . . vengeance!"

And action has always been part of Star Trek. As I've pointed out before, even "The Cage" has Pike fighting a giant furry barbarian and blasting a hole in his cage with his laser pistol. And the other Trek pilot ended with Kirk in a fist-fight with Gary Mitchell . . . .

The best Trek combines ideas and action and emotion and drama . . . and a healthy dose of fun. It's smart pop entertainment aimed at everybody, not just us hardcore cultists.

Preach it brother!!!!

 

[R. Star]

Eh, it wouldn't be directly tied to Nemesis or anything. I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

Agreed, that would've been much more interesting than just reshuffling the old deck of cards with some flashy action sequences.

 

[Greg Cox]

I'm not exactly missing the meetings.

I honestly find meetings and hearings more entertaining than the action scenes in Trek. Hence why I'm always suspicious if somebody thinks the movie First Contact is entertaining while the show's episode The Measure of a Man is boring.

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

One of the great things about Trek (and TOS in particular) is that the format was big enough to allow for all kinds of different stories: courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, trippy scifi mind-benders, morality plays, love stories, even the occasional farce.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm not exactly missing the meetings.

I honestly find meetings and hearings more entertaining than the action scenes in Trek. Hence why I'm always suspicious if somebody thinks the movie First Contact is entertaining while the show's episode The Measure of a Man is boring.

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

One of the great things about Trek (and TOS in particular) is that the format was big enough to allow for all kinds of different stories: courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, trippy scifi mind-benders, morality plays, love stories, even the occasional farce.

I like the TOS season one meetings best. Coffee cups on the table. People looking like they've been there awhile.

 

[DalekJim]

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

I really enjoyed First Contact before I became a Trekkie. Now I still think it's a fun action movie but there are too many insane contradictions that get in the way of me enjoying it. Now I'm left wondering why Picard is so obsessive about the Borg when he seemed pretty over his experience the last time he met them.

..and the concept of the Borg Queen is just impossible to wrap my head around. Just a way of dumbing the Borg down to make em more traditional villains.

 

[UFO]

People who go to the movies. From a marketing standpoint Kirk and Spock are a safer bet than Picard and Data, Sisko and Kira, Janeway and Seven or Archer and T'Pol.

Not really. Star Wars and Luke were unknown in 1977. Folks went in no knowlege of either one. Star Trek has been around for decades and is part of our culture. Even if people call him Dr. Spock, they have a vague idea who Spock is.

With fans maybe, but the general public might have been put off with all of them to some degree. A new crew could have been just as likely to succeed if everything else was right, in the same way that a new movie will succeed when it gets things right.

Yeah actually they should have, but I doubt the movie folks would have gone for that

Actually I meant instead of making TNG on TV, not the TNG movies.

What would make it a "Trek for our time"? Any show would reflect the time in which it is made. A rebooted TOS made in the 80/90 is not going to be a copy of the 60s version any more the ST09 was.

Exactly my point. Ie. it wouldn't be just a follow on from TNG, Voy etc. So assuming it will be boring or low rating just because it "follows on" is not set in stone if it had modern treatment and stories etc.

One of the great things about Trek (and TOS in particular) is that the format was big enough to allow for all kinds of different stories: courtroom dramas, murder mysteries, war stories, trippy scifi mind-benders, morality plays, love stories, even the occasional farce.

Sure but in my view, whatever form it takes, Trek should abide by its main tenets or explain why not. Such things as the idea that "we won't kill (or beat up someone) today" etc. When you ignore those types of things you lose the underpinnings of Trek no matter what the style or story type. You also lose the optimism that seemed fairly unique to Trek. TOS and less subtly TNG anyway.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Would you believe me if I told you that I'm actually a big fan of both "Measure" and First Contact? Indeed, to my mind, "Measure of a Man" was the first really good TNG ep, just as First Contact is far and away the best of the TNG movies.

I really enjoyed First Contact before I became a Trekkie. Now I still think it's a fun action movie but there are too many insane contradictions that get in the way of me enjoying it. Now I'm left wondering why Picard is so obsessive about the Borg when he seemed pretty over his experience the last time he met them.

..and the concept of the Borg Queen is just impossible to wrap my head around. Just a way of dumbing the Borg down to make em more traditional villains.

Did you have a Road to Damascus like conversion or something? Did The Great Bird come to you in a vision and anoint you a Trekkie?

All Trek is full of "insane contradictions". If I let that get in my way there'd be very few Treks I could enjoy. Sounds like you're letting minutia and trivia get in the way.

The Borg are pretty dumb villains to begin with, adding the Queen doesn't make them any dumber. I can't think of a single Trek villain who isn't "traditional" in one way or another. Star Trek isn't exactly groundbreaking in that regard.

 

[NuFan]

give it the same styling as ST09, with more (well some) substance and there is no reason to believe you wouldn't be good to go.

I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

Agreed, that would've been much more interesting than just reshuffling the old deck of cards with some flashy action sequences.

As I said, a Star Trek Universe fan will never be able to understand a Star Trek fan or anybody else that watches a Star Trek movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

People who go to the movies. From a marketing standpoint Kirk and Spock are a safer bet than Picard and Data, Sisko and Kira, Janeway and Seven or Archer and T'Pol.

Not really. Star Wars and Luke were unknown in 1977. Folks went in no knowlege of either one. Star Trek has been around for decades and is part of our culture. Even if people call him Dr. Spock, they have a vague idea who Spock is.

With fans maybe, but the general public might have been put off with all of them to some degree. A new crew could have been just as likely to succeed if everything else was right, in the same way that a new movie will succeed when it gets things right.

I'm talking about the general public. My mother who's never watched Star Trek ( or SF of any kind) knows who Kirk and Spock are. Both are still comedy punchlines. Picard and the rest not so much.

A new crew might work, but Kirk and Spock were safer bet. And, IIRC that's what the studio wanted.

Yeah actually they should have, but I doubt the movie folks would have gone for that

Actually I meant instead of making TNG on TV, not the TNG movies.

That's what I meant too. Remaking TOS on TV in 1987 rather than TNG.

 

[Nerys Myk]

As I said, a Star Trek Universe fan will never be able to understand a Star Trek fan or anybody else that watches a Star Trek movie.

What's a "Star Trek Universe fan" as opposed to a "Star Trek fan"?

 

[DalekJim]

As I said, a Star Trek Universe fan will never be able to understand a Star Trek fan or anybody else that watches a Star Trek movie.

I'd imagine most people on this board are fans of the Star Trek universe?

And I'd rather be one of those than a "NuFan".

 

[-Brett-]

give it the same styling as ST09, with more (well some) substance and there is no reason to believe you wouldn't be good to go.

I just want something set 100 years after the TNG/DS9/VOY era. It'd essentially be a reboot as the world would have to be re-introduced to fans and casuals alike.

Agreed, that would've been much more interesting than just reshuffling the old deck of cards with some flashy action sequences.

As I said, a Star Trek Universe fan will never be able to understand a Star Trek fan or anybody else that watches a Star Trek movie.

You can say it as many times as you'd like, it's still nonsense.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As I said, a Star Trek Universe fan will never be able to understand a Star Trek fan or anybody else that watches a Star Trek movie.

What's a "Star Trek Universe fan" as opposed to a "Star Trek fan"?

I took it to mean a fan of the setting and continuity of Trek vs. a fan of Kirk, Spock and the rest of the characters that inhabit the Trek universe.

Fans of the universe want to know what happens after Nemesis, not really caring who's involved, and of course despise their continuity being reset. Fans of the characters want more stories with their favourite characters and don't mind the continuity being rewritten in order to do that.

 

[Lance]

I think a reboot was certainly the right move. That said, I'm still not completely convinced that we actually needed an in-universe explanation of how said reboot exists seperately from Trek Prime, though. I'd have rathered the 2009 film had simply had a "Year Zero" and started completely from scratch, unambiguously severing any and all ties with primary Trek. But I suspect this preference would be in the minority within Trek fandom, and that the vast majority likely appreciated the fact that, in some way, the Abrams-verse still "connects" to the Trek of old (though the presence of Nimoy).