Poll Do you consider Discovery to truly be in the Prime Timeline at this point?

[Noname Given]

L'RELL is possibly the new Chancellor of the Empire, yet Ateztbur was said to be the first Klingon Chancellor, wasn't she?
I am probably mistaken.

STVI:TUC (circa Nov. 1991) was already inconsistent as in the 4th Season TNG episode "Redemption" (circa June 1991) had Gauwron stating: "Women cannot serve on the Council."

(To be fair though, it could be a case of Klingon's re-writing history because of what happened when Klingon Women served on the Council previously so the fact females HAD served was erased and the rule changed. Also, nowhere was it said in STVI:TUC that Ateztbur was in fact the first female Klingon to head the council; just that she was named in her father's stead after his assassination to lead the Council.)

 

[WebLurker]

The line is Redemption about women not being allowed to serve on the Council already contradicted Sins of the Father which very clearly showed three women serving on the Council.

Yeah, so there are exceptions to the rule.

Huh? The very first Klingon Chancellor seen in all Trek was K'mpec in TNG, and indeed Gowron was named Chancellor well before TUC was released. Even in TUC itself, Gorkon is Chancellor at the start and it's after his assassination that Azetbur takes office.

Sorry, I meant "first female character to be showns as chancellor."

Not exactly. Dax comments "surgeon does nice work" upon learning Darvin is a Klingon, but this was before the DS9 characters learned smooth-headed Klingons were once a thing. Though the novels did indeed go ahead and establish Darvin was ridged anyway.

She says that in response to Worf explaining that Darvin was surgically altered. Irregardless of the what the DS9 crew knew or did not know, even before ENT, we knew of ridged Klingons being altered to look human despite there also being the non-ridged TOS Klingons.

 

[Mudd]

You know, this series has nothing significant to do with the original Star Trek other than the reuse of some trademarks. Worrying about whether they're in the "same timeline" is meaningless. It's like asking if a Lamborghini and a Yugo are both cars. They are...but Discovery is a Yugo.

 

[lawman]

If quality of the show is a component of canon-worthiness, then nobody gets to complain when I say the Star Wars prequels aren't canon.

People would complain if you say that?

(Well, okay, maybe Disney would. Technically they control "canon" for SW, just like CBS does for Trek. But other than that, I'd think most fans would be more than happy to forget SW Episodes 1-3 ever existed and erase them from their mental continuity...)

 

[fireproof78]

That seems to be a large problem with DSC's Klingons from what I've heard; a lot of the things could coexist with the already established stuff, but the show presents the new as if that's the "only" version, which is not how the Force works.

Thus far, I've never felt like the DISCO Klingons are the "one and only" in the Empire.

 

[Donker]

It will be interesting to see how Star Trek fans talk about Discovery in a few years time. I suspect that Discovery will be kind of viewed as "half-canon" by the majority of fans. Stuff in Discovery did sort of happen.. but we just don't really talk about it and we just "ignore" the look of the Klingons and pretend they and their ships were far more normal.
I've already noticed in a lot of Star Trek discussions outside of /r/Startrek and TrekBBS, fans basically don't even really discuss Discovery as Prime canon at all and people often even forget it exists.

 

[Jesse1066]

It will be interesting to see how Star Trek fans talk about Discovery in a few years time. I suspect that Discovery will be kind of viewed as "half-canon" by the majority of fans. Stuff in Discovery did sort of happen.. but we just don't really talk about it and we just "ignore" the look of the Klingons and pretend they and their ships were far more normal.
I've already noticed in a lot of Star Trek discussions outside of /r/Startrek and TrekBBS, fans basically don't even really discuss Discovery as Prime canon at all and people often even forget it exists.

That would put it in pretty much the same category as TAS. I think that will change though as time goes on. Just like how most people accept Enterprise now

 

[Moe]

I can't say it is, to many inconsistency and how are they going to explain away the spore drive. It's such an overpowering ability in the universe. There are plenty of plot holes as well but I'm not going to elaborate on that.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It turns out Discovery is barred from using any elements from the 13 Star Trek movies. So Sybok is officially NOT canon in Discovery's version of the Trek universe and perhaps the Klingons and their ships can't look the way they first did in The Motion Picture and Search For Spock.

 

[Mirror Mirror]

It turns out Discovery is barred from using any elements from the 13 Star Trek movies. So Sybok is officially NOT canon in Discovery's version of the Trek universe and perhaps the Klingons and their ships can't look the way they first did in The Motion Picture and Search For Spock.

They looked the same in TNG, which they would be allowed to use. They just would be bared from movie only stuff, which is not a bad thing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

They looked the same in TNG, which they would be allowed to use. They just would be bared from movie only stuff, which is not a bad thing.

All those looks originated in the movies though, surely making them their property and giving Paramount the edge should any legal dispute arise?

 

[jaime]

It turns out Discovery is barred from using any elements from the 13 Star Trek movies. So Sybok is officially NOT canon in Discovery's version of the Trek universe and perhaps the Klingons and their ships can't look the way they first did in The Motion Picture and Search For Spock.

As I just said over there, that writer is mistaken...they have already used the Vulcan Katra (Star Trek II- IV) the new enterprise leans into the refit, but there’s also the Vulcan education machines in Burnhams flashback isn’t there?
(If you want get technical, the cross field itself is an unused what-became-movie-era design as it’s base, which is in the background in III)
There’s also too much crossover between the pre 2009 movies and the TV show. Movie Scotty, Excelsiors and Miranda’s, BoPs, K’Tingas, etc. The writer is clearly mistaken. The only reason they can’t really refer to the movies is because they haven’t happened yet.

 

[F. King Daniel]

As I just said over there, that writer is mistaken...they have already used the Vulcan Katra (Star Trek II- IV) the new enterprise leans into the refit, but there’s also the Vulcan education machines in Burnhams flashback isn’t there?
(If you want get technical, the cross field itself is an unused what-became-movie-era design as it’s base, which is in the background in III)
There’s also too much crossover between the pre 2009 movies and the TV show. Movie Scotty, Excelsiors and Miranda’s, BoPs, K’Tingas, etc. The writer is clearly mistaken. The only reason they can’t really refer to the movies is because they haven’t happened yet.

The crossover in Berman Trek happened before the CBS/Paramount split so is immaterial. Things looking similar but not identical (Vulcan Learnatarium pods etc) are a grey area but technically don't count.

I would imagine a writer on the show itself has more insider knowledge on this issue than any of us. She's likely been told by some one above her what she can and can't reference.

 

[jaime]

The crossover in Berman Trek happened before the CBS/Paramount split so is immaterial. Things looking similar but not identical (Vulcan Learnatarium pods etc) are a grey area but technically don't count.

I would imagine a writer on the show itself has more insider knowledge on this issue than any of us. She's likely been told by some one above her what she can and can't reference.

It just doesn’t fit with what we know about the license, (or the picture on the wall they used to show it was prime in an oblique way) and Katra alone is pretty much a heavily movie era thing.

 

[F. King Daniel]

It just doesn’t fit with what we know about the license, (or the picture on the wall they used to show it was prime in an oblique way) and Katra alone is pretty much a heavily movie era thing.

They mentioned Katras in passing, but implemented them entirely differently to Search For Spock. There was no downloading of consciousness, just long-distance communication which was established in TOS.

 

[unimatrix7]

It will be interesting to see how Star Trek fans talk about Discovery in a few years time. I suspect that Discovery will be kind of viewed as "half-canon" by the majority of fans. Stuff in Discovery did sort of happen.. but we just don't really talk about it and we just "ignore" the look of the Klingons and pretend they and their ships were far more normal.
I've already noticed in a lot of Star Trek discussions outside of /r/Startrek and TrekBBS, fans basically don't even really discuss Discovery as Prime canon at all and people often even forget it exists.

This is a tedious ritual that plagues every iteration of Star Trek until it ends and the rose-tinted glasses do their thang. They debated whether or not DS9 was canon. Then did it again with Voyager. Then Enterprise. I dunno, I feel like those TOS fans who didn't like 'the bald guy' also argued TNG wasn't 'canon' as well, but I doubt those people would be seen dead in a Disco forum so we may never know.

So, like clockwork, here we are again.

Discovery clearly is canon. The writers have said so. The continuity issues are no more egregious than in any other iteration of Trek, and there's an entire subset of Trekker devoted to rationalising continuity blunders - and a mighty fine job they do as well. Bless their souls for the important role they play in my mental health.

Trek continuity has always been a bit awkward. It's like a big yukyy dog blanket - a few holes in places, a little rough around the edges. Needs a wash. But take it away and Fido will fight you.

But whatever. You do you

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

All those looks originated in the movies though, surely making them their property and giving Paramount the edge should any legal dispute arise?

Even if something truly originated in one of the movies, but was then used in TNG or VOY (I'm thinking of the refit D7/K'Tinga class), I think that would be a precedent that would allow DSC to use it. Unless there was a contractural thing that was very specific about where and how many times something could be used.

Though the D7 might be a bad example since the smoother version was seen in TOS. We say plenty of Excelsior class ships on TNG & DS9.

When did CBS & Paramount split anyway? Could some of the earlier uses be grandfathered in?

 

[Mudd]

We don't know what CBS can and can't use. We know what a staff writer said in a general way in an interview.

Many design elements in this show and Trek in general track to the pre-Abrams films, including that animated "Red Alert" banner they make a point of using.

 

[jaime]

They mentioned Katras in passing, but implemented them entirely differently to Search For Spock. There was no downloading of consciousness, just long-distance communication which was established in TOS.

They had sarek stick part of his Katra in Burnham to bring her back to life. It’s closer to the movie use, including the word itself, than it is to Spocks obi wan moment. The whole show is closer to movie era aesthetics in general. I think the writer got the wrong end of the stick. *shrug*

 

[Nyotarules]

I would've had no problem if Discovery's Klingons were a sub species of Klingon, like say the Mintakan Vulcans or the Romulans are to the Vulcans.
I'm not adverse to change, but seriously, Klingons are cannibals now?
L'RELL is possibly the new Chancellor of the Empire, yet Ateztbur was said to be the first Klingon Chancellor, wasn't she?
I am probably mistaken.
Why did Voq need to be mutilated into a human operative when Augmented AND ridged Klingons both existed since ENT?
That in itself would have tied canon to TOS even more.

Yes you are, you ever watched Deep space Nine or STUC?