Discovery Size Argument™ thread

[Timo]

Unclear indeed. Arguments for both options can readily be found.

T'Kumva might have committed his reserves only after receiving the attention of a worthy adversary, that is, Anderson - the reserves being the cleave ship and a couple of conventional ones. The utilization of the cloaking device as a weapon of war would be his big demo, and the wait for Anderson his tactic for maximizing the visibility and effectiveness of the demo. In contrast, random allies arriving exactly when Anderson does would be an unlikely coincidence.

But if T'Kumva's big speech to the holograms after the arrival of the initial 24 ships produces no result, then the story falls somewhat flat. Kol bails out, but others agree on staying. Presumably they then send more ships, which perhaps decide to join the battle at the obvious cue of the cloakship having her big moment.

Personally, I prefer the latter option, as the arriving ships are diverse, featuring e.g. the trademark (?) D-7 of L'Rell's House. It may seem unrealistic for the reinforcements from diverse sources to arrive on such short notice, but every House would have those on standby anyway when sending the one representative ship to talk with the clown who lit the Light of Kahless. And the initial 24 did arrive quickly, suggesting the action took place close to Klingon heartlands.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DEWLine]

On the coreward side of Romulan space from most known Klingon holdings.

(Since DSC is using Star Charts/Stellar Cartography map data, I'm going with that.)

I really hope the graphic designers working on the show get to show 3D maps properly. And that they get taught how to work/play with GAIA DR 2 information in order to give us a better sense of the neighbourhoods.

 

[SPCTRE]

When I consider visuals for a production I like to think Recognizable v. Diversity. If I know the core of the story and writing is going to require a lot of visual depth and spread then going down the road of varied visuals makes plenty of sense. The "bad guys" don't need to be recognizable if you're going to take the time to explain why it is and who they are to the audience as the show progresses. I'd buy the Klingon visuals of DSC if the show was 70-80% only about the Klingons and we were going to get more about who they are, what makes them so different, what more is there to the culture and houses that justify such diverse and stark visual changes. However when you know that the core of your show is going to be about other things (in this case the crew of the Discovery and their adventures) you gotta make the "bad guy" not only recognizable but also a repeatable affair that regardless of ship type, clothing item, or make-up element you as the viewer go, "that's the bad guy!", every time they pop up on screen even if that is only between 5-15% of the whole shows run-time.

Obviously DSC's S1 production was marred with whole block issues like the "loss" of the original showrunner, the introduction of two inexperienced low-level showrunners, Akiva Goldsman, writing room inexperience and lack of regulation by the two new showrunners, and of course a mass disconnect within production design and how it functioned in relationship to the varying writing room changes throughout the whole of the shows S1 production. Unfortunately the Klingons were a casualty of these issues which is extremely obvious on screen and even in production interviews that speak on the narrative of it all. All anyone can hope for is that all of this has been "mostly" resolved per S2 and that the smoother machine churns out tastier butter for the audience to digest. As some have pointed out the Klingons will be getting a "new" look come S2 which will for sure not be a radical departure from S1 but will more than likely aim to make them more recognizable on screen as Klingons universally (added hair, more universal costumes, and maybe just maybe slightly lighter prosthetic around the mouth). As for the ships they may also introduce more recognized designs and traits if the idea for S2 is a "unified" Klingon Empire on screen with L'rell as chancellor which could mean a more universal look to their future ships (redesigned TOS D7 prototypes or just more traditional hull shapes). Either way one can only hope with a smoother production that the kinks are slowly being ironed out.

 

[Tuskin38]

I meant to do this weeks ago but forgot about it, here is the Sarcophagus in STO next to a Sovereign. Cryptic gets their sizes from CBS.

Sovereign and Crossfield

 

[Timo]

On the coreward side of Romulan space from most known Klingon holdings. (Since DSC is using Star Charts/Stellar Cartography map data, I'm going with that.)

And this is the interesting bit. The writers or their tech-proofreaders would be using the same data, supposedly, as it's the "official" material trivially available to them. And now they further reinforce the ST2:TWoK idea that Gamma Hydra is a Klingon thing, an idea the SC tried to dismiss in favor of it having been a Romulan thing in TOS originally. What drives the writers here if not the "default material"? And is a major revision of cartographic thinking due now after all?

I really hope the graphic designers working on the show get to show 3D maps properly. And that they get taught how to work/play with GAIA DR 2 information in order to give us a better sense of the neighbourhoods.

Indeed - the current material ought to leave them maximally free to do that. Although admittedly the flat format of SC is laborious to "pull back out" to its 3D form...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DEWLine]

They should talk to Kevin Jardine. Seems like he's got a handle on that already.

https://twitter.com/galaxy_map

 

[DaveyNY]

The Star Trek Stellar Cartography Reference Library book is being reissued this fall (early October), and apparently it has been adjusted for information gleaned from the first season of DISCOVERY.

So there's something to put in ones Funk N Wagnall.

 

[Tuskin38]

the Eaglemoss Size charts have apprently arrived for some people.

@thribs says the Connie is 423 Meters long, which is about 60 meters shorter then the Polar Lights estimate.

 

[Tuskin38]

Correction, the Enterprise is 442 not 423 meters.

@pst posted some pictures of the Federation and Klingon size charts over here

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/sta...ne-subscription.213883/page-336#post-12595377

 

[Gonzo]

Correction, the Enterprise is 442 not 423 meters.

@pst posted some pictures of the Federation and Klingon size charts over here

https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/sta...ne-subscription.213883/page-336#post-12595377

That will keep the Enterprise in the right sort of ballpark with the rest of the fleet, it would have looked rather silly at the original size, especially as the Shenzou would then be considerably larger, yet much older.

Some believed that Sarcophagus ship was about 1km long, you could see just from looking at it that it was much bigger.

Must admit the Enterprise does seem to stick out from the rest of the fleet in regards to texture and overall style, the other ships of the fleet make the Enterprise look very slim indeed.​

 

[DaveyNY]

When and if I ever get my copy of the posters, I'll try and post a better render of them.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

That will keep the Enterprise in the right sort of ballpark with the rest of the fleet, it would have looked rather silly at the original size, especially as the Shenzou would then be considerably larger, yet much older.

Never been entirely sure why "larger" should necessarily equate to "newer" in such contexts, but in any case...what many here call "the original size" wasn't that at all, actually. Per a memo dated 24 August 1964, reproduced on page 89 of The Making Of Star Trek, Roddenberry initially "anticipate[d] a final design might see the ship as 200 feet in length," whereas the original TOS writer's guide stated that the saucer section was "twenty stories thick" and the shuttlebay "large enough to hangar a whole fleet of today's jet liners"! That's quite a range of "original" sizes, there!

On the other hand, 442 meters is quite close to the size suggested by Doug Drexler's cutaway that was used onscreen in "In A Mirror, Darkly" (ENT)! It's also a lot more reasonable based on the sets and shuttlebay miniatures from TOS.

(Thanks again to @Mytran for pointing this out!)

Must admit the Enterprise does seem to stick out from the rest of the fleet in regards to texture and overall style...

I would suggest that isn't an accident. I believe preserving the Enterprise as a special, visually unique vessel to be the very reason why Bryan Fuller told John Eaves to avoid features like round nacelles in designing the DSC ships in the first place.

-MMoM

 

[Ronald Held]

No idea why things must grow with Time.

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

So in The Discovery reboot universe the Connie’s are the smallest ships in the fleet? And smallest by a significant margin if you look at internal volume??

Didn’t they mention in some early forgettable episode that they (Constitution class) were these grand top of the line, like luxury liners or something?

 

[Jinn]

So in The Discovery reboot universe the Connie’s are the smallest ships in the fleet? And smallest by a significant margin if you look at internal volume??

Not canonically, no.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

So in The Discovery reboot universe the Connie’s are the smallest ships in the fleet? And smallest by a significant margin if you look at internal volume??

Didn’t they mention in some early forgettable episode that they (Constitution class) were these grand top of the line, like luxury liners or something?

No.

But thanks for playing.

-MMoM

[P.S. -- How many Lord Garths do we have around here, anyway? I like the other one's attitude better.]

 

[Tuskin38]

the Connie’s are the smallest ships in the fleet?

No, there are smaller ships. The Connie is about mid range.

The smallest ship is the Magee at approx. 225.5 Meters.

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

Oh you have spoken it must be fact.
What a d bag

No.

But thanks for playing.

-MMoM

[P.S. -- How many Lord Garths do we have around here, anyway? I like the other one's attitude better.]

 

[Lord Garth FOI]

No, there are smaller ships. The Connie is about mid range.

The smallest ship is the Magee at approx. 225.5 Meters.

Saw that but of the capital ships it certainly does fall on the smaller end of the scale

 

[Tuskin38]

Saw that but of the capital ships it certainly does fall on the smaller end of the scale

The connie isn't a capital ship though