Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?

[Noname Given]

I don't remember people recording themselves and bursting into tears, calling it the greatest episode in the history of television cause the Enterprise-D appeared. It was the same with Rogue One, a really average movie (at best) then they throw in a shit ton of fan service.

What does that have to do with the fact that these Star Trek series ARE trading in fan service as well? Just because no one recorded their reactions, their POSTS here indicate roughly the same situation.

 

[Zod]

Quite a few months back, someone posted a link to verrry old usenet (?) posts dating back to 1992, when DS9 was just announced, and the fans back then were no different to the fans now...they were HATING EVERYTHING. And I do mean everything

I was there! I was arguing FOR DS9.....Good times.

The same happened right here for Enterprise in 2001 (I had an account here from 1999-2002 and for some reason got another account that I have had since 2002) ....I went back to read my posts from 2002 but it only goes back to 2007.

Having been involved in those arguments I would say with Discovery the arguments are more heated and people take criticisms of the show personally for some reason.

 

[Lord Garth]

I was there! I was arguing FOR DS9.....Good times.

The same happened right here for Enterprise....I went back to read my posts from 2002 but it only goes back to 2007.

Having been involved in those arguments I would say with Discovery the arguments are more heated and people take criticisms of the show personally for some reason.

The ENT Forum was a lot worse than this. We're nowhere near that. That forum, as you know, was notorious for flame wars, locked threads, high moderator turnover, and overall insanity.

I went back-and-forth on VOY. I was a fan of DS9 and I took some of the stuff personally, but I was also 17, so I'm not going to count that. People who were anti-TOS also pressed my buttons.

 

[Zod]

The ENT Forum was a lot worse than this. We're nowhere near that. That forum, as you know, was notorious for flame wars, locked threads, high moderator turnover, and overall insanity.

I went back-and-forth on VOY. I was a fan of DS9 and I took some of the stuff personally, but I was also 17, so I'm not going to count that. People who were anti-TOS also pressed my buttons.

Haha see what time does? It makes me remember it as not being as bad. Hard to believe we were all (well some of us lol) typing away about Enterprise right here almost 20 years ago

TWENTY YEARS!

 

[nafeasonto]

What does that have to do with the fact that these Star Trek series ARE trading in fan service as well? Just because no one recorded their reactions, their POSTS here indicate roughly the same situation.

I have zero issue with fan service. The Guardian throwback was the greatest memory for me in Discovery. I don't like TOS that much, but City on the Edge of Forever is an awesome episode.

 

[Zod]

The ENT Forum was a lot worse than this. We're nowhere near that. That forum, as you know, was notorious for flame wars, locked threads, high moderator turnover, and overall insanity.

I went back-and-forth on VOY. I was a fan of DS9 and I took some of the stuff personally, but I was also 17, so I'm not going to count that. People who were anti-TOS also pressed my buttons.

I went to the Enterprise forum and back to 2003 and struck paydirt almost right away. From one thread:

Oh my God!!! This is the end!

I told you all that this would happen! I told you, I told you, I told you! But you never listened to me!

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Let's storm the Paramount gates! Burn Berman in effigy! Hold Braga's wife's breasts hostage! Smite Paramount executives from on high!

 

[Lord Garth]

I went to the Enterprise forum and back to 2003 and struck paydirt almost right away. From one thread:

Oh my God!!! This is the end!

I told you all that this would happen! I told you, I told you, I told you! But you never listened to me!

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Let's storm the Paramount gates! Burn Berman in effigy! Hold Braga's wife's breasts hostage! Smite Paramount executives from on high!

And now it's approved of by "tru fans" as the last vestige of Old Trek or, at worst, "better than what I remembered!" That's exactly the reason why I disregard comments from Gatekeepers and the Fandom Menace. I've seen all this before. And they don't get it because they're stuck in a Temporal Causality Loop.

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They didn't learn anything from the last go-around. Maybe we should put a bunch of 3s in all our posts from now on. Clue them in.

 

[Paul755]

Here’s the thing, it cuts both ways.

I’m sure there are plenty of people from “back in the day” that thought every episode of Voyager S2 (for example) was a revelation. That would make the same pro-Voyager arguments that are now being made but pro-Discovery (and Picard and LD). How many would look back and say they were wrong.

how many would want to retract that “The Kazon are great” hot take?

 

[fireproof78]

Here’s the thing, it cuts both ways.

I’m sure there are plenty of people from “back in the day” that thought every episode of Voyager S2 (for example) was a revelation. That would make the same pro-Voyager arguments that are now being made but pro-Discovery (and Picard and LD). How many would look back and say they were wrong.

This is a good point. That's why I want to hear from people, but when people are positing that they are miserable watching a show it begs a lot of questions.

 

[Lord Garth]

Here’s the thing, it cuts both ways.

I’m sure there are plenty of people from “back in the day” that thought every episode of Voyager S2 (for example) was a revelation. That would make the same pro-Voyager arguments that are now being made but pro-Discovery (and Picard and LD). How many would look back and say they were wrong.

how many would want to retract that “The Kazon are great” hot take?

It's been a long time, and this was right around the time I first got on the Internet, but I remember people being excited the Kazon were left behind. People were starting to get sick of them. I was glad the Kazon were left behind. I missed Seska, but I definitely didn't miss Maje Cullah.

 

[Zod]

how many would want to retract that “The Kazon are great” hot take?

I was a kid so I will use that as the excuse. My mom would constantly bother me to get a hair cut. I used to tell her I wanted to look like a Kazon. I even one time tried to make my hair mimic the Kazon. The picture makes me laugh to this day.

LOL

Good times

I didn't miss them when Voyager flew out of their space. Although I missed Seska and Aaron Eisenberg had a decent Kazon episode and I miss the actor. I did used to wonder what happened to the 37's planet and the humans there, being so close to Kazon space.

The idea they were trying to somehow portray LA Gangs with the Kazon didn't resonate with me, mostly because I lived in Compton and I failed to see the connection. I was not happy when I read about it.

 

[donners22]

Having been involved in those arguments I would say with Discovery the arguments are more heated and people take criticisms of the show personally for some reason.

There are a lot more bad faith arguments against Discovery than with previous series (for instance the IMDb reviews for episodes this season, which are littered with bigotry).

They're also often framed on the basis of it not being "real Trek"; by implication, those who regard it as “real Trek” (if there is such a thing) and enjoy it are not "real fans". I'd absolutely take that personally.

 

[fireproof78]

The psychology of fandom is fascinating. It seems that a lot of the more bitter, extreme fans are fuelled by a sense of ownership and expectation, which pretty much sabotages their ability to enjoy anything...unless it fits in with their expectations and wants, as The Mandalorian seems to be doing.

This is an excellent description and probably why I'm so fascinated even though there is no necessarily rhyme or reason to it. It simply is a feeling of ownership and expectation, irrational as it may be, and if unsatisfied can be quite difficult to see past.

 

[C.E. Evans]

For me, Discovery has been hit and miss from day one. There are times when I think it's great and times when I just sit there and ask "Why did they do that?"

I'm not really too inclined to waste keystrokes or bandwidth complaining and nitpicking, but there are things about DIS that I like--and things I don't. It's been kind of 50/50 for me, and it's still very much that way as I head towards the third season finale. If the show stays the course, I'm probably going to remain ambivalent about it for the foreseeable future.

 

[Therin of Andor]

For me, Discovery has been hit and miss from day one. There are times when I think it's great and times when I just sit there and ask "Why did they do that?"

Me with DS9 until "Blood Oath". Me with VGR until Seven of Nine surprised me with her great performances. Me with ENT for most of its lacklustre Season Two.

 

[Vger23]

I haven’t seen The Mandalorian but I’ve seen similar reports from SW nuts and casual viewers alike.

I guess the question we need to ask again is: why has nobody ever said this about any Star Trek production? I saw a twitter thread where a journo asked the void if anyone could name a TV series that remained good after season 4. Folks answered with the usual suspects - GoT, The Walking Dead, Sopranos, The Good Wife, Bosch and so on. I cringed so hard when I saw someone name DS9.

Now I love DS9 too, but dear god by any objective standard I would be very surprised if any TV critic would consider it good. I may be wrong on this point so don’t hit me, this is just my feeling and I’m not as learned as y’all on these matters. But in my opinion, most of Star Trek is in fact quite awful. When Star Trek is good, it’s only good ...for Star Trek. The Visitor is an amazing episode ...for Star Trek.

Disco is no exception. It’s Star Trek through and through. And as time goes on the novelty has worn off for me and I’m starting to see become less easily impressed. I thought the first half of this season was phenomenal (...for Star Tr- you get the idea), give or take a few unnecessary visits to boring rural backwaters, but everything since has been less good.

I still can’t believe that The Burn was caused by a bored Kelpian stuck in a bad Joe Menosky episode. I thought they screwed up the Red Angel - an interesting sci fi mystery presented as a meditation on faith vs. science but turned out just to be Burnham’s mum in an over-designed time travel suit. But eh.

I’m not trying to be a hater by the way. I look forward to Trek every week and time my pizza delivery to 7:05pm on Friday night, precisely 5 mins after Netflix makes it available in my local time. Woe betide the delivery human who delivers 5 minutes early, because I can’t start eating until Trek is available :/

Yeah I don’t know man...

I think Star Trek is pretty good. I’m a big fan.

 

[unimatrix7]

Yeah I don’t know man...

I think Star Trek is pretty good. I’m a big fan.

Same.

 

[unimatrix7]

I disagree with this so much it hurts. I need to go over to the Disco crying thread and...well, cry.

I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to rock the boat, I think maybe my point was the it helps to like Star Trek on its own terms and only to compare it to itself, not to the A-list dramas so beloved of mass market streaming audiences today.

Maybe I should've just said that instead of whatever that late night rambling monologue I posted was carrying on about.

 

[fireproof78]

I think comparing Trek to Trek is even dubious. Each has their own production story and goals within it. Even within Star Trek there is a lot of variety to be had.

 

[Phily B]

What does that have to do with the fact that these Star Trek series ARE trading in fan service as well? Just because no one recorded their reactions, their POSTS here indicate roughly the same situation.

That Star Trek can't rely on nostalgia like Trek, it can try, but it'll fail. Otherwise the new shows would be more like Orville.