Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?

[unimatrix7]

Even I have to accept that The Mandalorian is a glorious show that does almost everything right. The legacy characters that appear make sense to apear within the context of Din's specific quest. It's exceptional entertainment that never fails to strike the right chord at the right moment. Especially season 2.

I haven’t seen The Mandalorian but I’ve seen similar reports from SW nuts and casual viewers alike.

I guess the question we need to ask again is: why has nobody ever said this about any Star Trek production? I saw a twitter thread where a journo asked the void if anyone could name a TV series that remained good after season 4. Folks answered with the usual suspects - GoT, The Walking Dead, Sopranos, The Good Wife, Bosch and so on. I cringed so hard when I saw someone name DS9.

Now I love DS9 too, but dear god by any objective standard I would be very surprised if any TV critic would consider it good. I may be wrong on this point so don’t hit me, this is just my feeling and I’m not as learned as y’all on these matters. But in my opinion, most of Star Trek is in fact quite awful. When Star Trek is good, it’s only good ...for Star Trek. The Visitor is an amazing episode ...for Star Trek.

Disco is no exception. It’s Star Trek through and through. And as time goes on the novelty has worn off for me and I’m starting to see become less easily impressed. I thought the first half of this season was phenomenal (...for Star Tr- you get the idea), give or take a few unnecessary visits to boring rural backwaters, but everything since has been less good.

I still can’t believe that The Burn was caused by a bored Kelpian stuck in a bad Joe Menosky episode. I thought they screwed up the Red Angel - an interesting sci fi mystery presented as a meditation on faith vs. science but turned out just to be Burnham’s mum in an over-designed time travel suit. But eh.

I’m not trying to be a hater by the way. I look forward to Trek every week and time my pizza delivery to 7:05pm on Friday night, precisely 5 mins after Netflix makes it available in my local time. Woe betide the delivery human who delivers 5 minutes early, because I can’t start eating until Trek is available :/

 

[Agony_Boothb]

sorry for the double post here, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but...

look, I'm not one of those neckbeard SW fans who hates Disney and Kennedy and the sequel trilogy and wants it burned down at all costs. On the contrary. I loved Last Jedi. RoS was disappointing, sure, but every franchise has it's TFF...it's fine.

And I usually despise fan service without reason for fan service.

Even I have to accept that The Mandalorian is a glorious show that does almost everything right. The legacy characters that appear make sense to apear within the context of Din's specific quest. It's exceptional entertainment that never fails to strike the right chord at the right moment. Especially season 2.

Sorry, but are you suggesting that I am a 'neckbeard' because I don't like Mandalorian season 2?

 

[ITDUDE]

I
“Star Trek 1966-2005"

To be fare I also had that on my avatar too.
But it WAS 2005

 

[Hythlodeus]

Sorry, but are you suggesting that I am a 'neckbeard' because I don't like Mandalorian season 2?

no, I do not.
what I'm suggesting is, that there is a very specific subtype of fans who ADORE The Mandalorian just as an atithesis to the rest of Disny's Star Wars output, who enjoy the show not as a mean of entertainment, but as a - perceived - sociopolitical statement that empowers their incel whining. (completely ignoring of course, that there are even more strong, female characters in the show than in the sequel trilogy).

in short, I stated I am not one of those people

 

[Vger23]

This kind of thread seems to come up, every time a Disco season is ending. I consider myself someone who likes good TV, which we had a lot of during the last 15 years or so.

I see Disco as what it is: a big budget Star Trek TV show. Most of the people (just like myself) who bitch about Disco continuity errors and canon violations are actually annoyed by the bad writing and character development of this show.

When it comes to quality of writing, I am comparing this show to Breaking Bad / The Wire / Sopranos / True Detective and all the other great stuff which has been produced over the course of the last 2 decades. Hand on the heart; Disco sinks in comparison to good contemporary TV, even though the money is there.

Just bring on a good show and we will stop bitching, i promise...

Actually, I’d prefer they keep the show as is, and I’ll just continue to scroll past your posts.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Omega would've been much better

I’ve no idea what an Omega particle is and I watched that episode a month or two ago. That’s how much impact it had.
Using it sounds fan wanky.

 

[fireproof78]

Just bring on a good show and we will stop bitching, i promise...

I don't believe this for a moment.

 

[Zod]

This show has been up and down for me its entire run. I liked Lorca from season one and he was compelling to watch, but the rest was hit or miss. Season two I didn't enjoy as the season went on. I was intrigued in the beginning. The high point for me was when they went back to the planet from "The Cage"

Season three started out strong for me, the best yet. The episode before this most recent, with the holodeck and the creature I liked the least. The last episode was pretty good.

Overall I like season 3 the best. I still miss Lorca, as Jason Issacs is a great actor playing an interesting character, but I like season 3. I am a stickler for canon and it hurt my enjoyment from the first two seasons. Season 3, freed from all that, has made it easier for me to enjoy.

I still strongly believe that they made a mistake with Michael. She should have been captain since the start or near the start. Because with her always telling people what to do, her always being right. That fits the captain role much easier.

 

[fireproof78]

Even I have to accept that The Mandalorian is a glorious show that does almost everything right. The legacy characters that appear make sense to apear within the context of Din's specific quest. It's exceptional entertainment that never fails to strike the right chord at the right moment. Especially season 2.

I am a SW fan, loved TLJ and even found TROS to be OK. The Mandalorian is hitting all the fan service buttons.

And that's a problem. I don't know enough to care enough about Din. I appreciate all the other appearances and you are right that they make sense in universe. But, that's it. In a show about a Mandalorian I care very little about the main character. And it's more telling to me that people are going, "What happens next?" due to the events of Season 2.

Discovery has places that deserve critique but I have always cared about the main characters and wanted to journey alongside them. Din not so much.

 

[Lord Garth]

Anyone who says Discovery lost them and comes back in Season 4 isn't actually lost. They'll stick around to the end, and for other series. We'll see what they say about Strange New Worlds. TOS in 2020s drag. It's as close to Classic Trek as we're going to get. On the other end, you've got Picard, which wants to be Prestige Drama.

Between all of these, if you don't end up liking any of them, what's the point in sticking around? Rick Berman ran things for about 16 years (and co-ran them for two before that). He was around for a long time. Alex Kurtzman could probably stick around in charge for a similar amount of time.

So who wants to watch something they hate every week for a decade or two, just because "I have to watch it all"? That's fucked up.

 

[fireproof78]

So who wants to watch something they hate every week for a decade or two, just because "I have to watch it all"? That's fucked up.

This is the burning question for me. Can someone please answer it as to why, if this show is so painful, do you keep watching it?

 

[Phily B]

Star Trek show wouldn't work like Mandalorian, nor would I want it to tbh. Modern Star Wars is fueled entirely by nostalgia and is wildly more popular than anything else in science fiction. I'm sure there would be people who would love a re-tread of TNG, but it ain't happening.

 

[thribs]

Season 3 is losing you? Weird since it’s better, story wise than seasons 1 and 2.

 

[Noname Given]

Star Trek show wouldn't work like Mandalorian, nor would I want it to tbh. Modern Star Wars is fueled entirely by nostalgia and is wildly more popular than anything else in science fiction. I'm sure there would be people who would love a re-tread of TNG, but it ain't happening.

Yeah, because current Star Trek shows like Picard, and Lower Decks DON'T trade on TNG nostalgia AT ALL...oh, wait...

(Seriously, go into the Picard or Lower Decks forums and see the responses to Riker, Troi, Data and Soong appearing, plus the cries for Worf, Geordi, etc. to show up. Hell most everyone rated the Lower Decks season finale a '10' because Riker showed up in the U.S.S. Titan for 30 seconds.)

 

[nafeasonto]

I hope they don't change anything about the show, and don't listen to toxic fans. I'd be pissed.

 

[cultcross]

I definitely don't get the love for the Mandalorian. It's visually impressive, sure, but it's very one note and repetitive, and I found it dull. For all Discovery's flaws, I've enjoyed it more.

 

[fireproof78]

Seriously, go into the Picard or Lower Decks forums and see the responses to Riker, Troi, Data and Soong appearing, plus the cries for Worf, Geordi, etc. to show up. Hell most everyone rated the Lower Decks season finale a '10' because Riker showed up in the U.S.S. Titan for 30 seconds

Nostalgia sells. All it has to do is hit the right feels and its a 10.

 

[ananta]

Now I love DS9 too, but dear god by any objective standard I would be very surprised if any TV critic would consider it good. I may be wrong on this point so don’t hit me, this is just my feeling and I’m not as learned as y’all on these matters. But in my opinion, most of Star Trek is in fact quite awful. When Star Trek is good, it’s only good ...for Star Trek. The Visitor is an amazing episode ...for Star Trek.

I disagree with this so much it hurts. I need to go over to the Disco crying thread and...well, cry.

 

[Phily B]

Yeah, because current Star Trek shows like Picard, and Lower Decks DON'T trade on TNG nostalgia AT ALL...oh, wait...

(Seriously, go into the Picard or Lower Decks forums and see the responses to Riker, Troi, Data and Soong appearing, plus the cries for Worf, Geordi, etc. to show up. Hell most everyone rated the Lower Decks season finale a '10' because Riker showed up in the U.S.S. Titan for 30 seconds.)

I don't remember people recording themselves and bursting into tears, calling it the greatest episode in the history of television cause the Enterprise-D appeared. It was the same with Rogue One, a really average movie (at best) then they throw in a shit ton of fan service.

 

[ananta]

Quite a few months back, someone posted a link to verrry old usenet (?) posts dating back to 1992, when DS9 was just announced, and the fans back then were no different to the fans now...they were HATING EVERYTHING. And I do mean everything. They were tearing DS9 to shreds before it had even aired a nanosecond, as well as lamenting how awful TNG had become (admittedly I wasn’t a fan of the fifth season, but there was still much to enjoy)and also tearing strips off The Undiscovered Country...which I always thought was fairly universally loved. Nowadays fans look back on TNG, DS9 and films like TUC as a kind of holy grail of Trek. But at the time it here was obviously a great deal of negativity and resentment too.

It made me realise that fans have always been this way. It’s just the internet gives voice to it. Fair enough, it could be quite lonely being a fan when I was a kid and didn’t have the internet or any Trek-loving friends. But at least I got to enjoy things without being exposed to the general negativity of fans who always seem to think that past Trek is great and present Trek is shit.

I don’t mean to compare everyone who isn’t enjoying DSC to the more toxic elements of fandom. I’ve been critical of the show in this thread too. I’m just saying it’s an unreasonable expectation that things should always be perfect and that they should conform to our expectations. I do what I’ve always done with Trek—I take the good with the bad and enjoy it for what it is. If a show really isn’t for me (hello Voyager and Enterprise), I quit bitching and stop watching. There’s always other things to watch and focus on. You win some you lose some. That’s life. No point being a whiny child about it, like so many fans tend to be.

Fortunately, bad though they can be, Star Trek fans are nowhere as bad as Star Wars fans. I was only recently reading how viciously they treated those involved with The Phantom Menace. The guy that played Jar Jar Binks was just about driven to suicide, and the boy that played Annakin never acted again, destroyed his childhood Star Wars memorabilia and descended into schizophrenia (the treatment he received from fandom can’t be blamed for that, but it sure can’t have helped, for he described his subsequent life a “living hell”). The recent furore The Last Jedi got was a perfect demonstration of fans gone bad.I actually really enjoyed TJL (although not seen it since the cinema), but the hatred it received was mind-blowing. The psychology of fandom is fascinating. It seems that a lot of the more bitter, extreme fans are fuelled by a sense of ownership and expectation, which pretty much sabotages their ability to enjoy anything...unless it fits in with their expectations and wants, as The Mandalorian seems to be doing.

Anyway, I can’t even remember my original point. I’ll shut up now.