I wish the fuk I knew.
Discovery is losing me in Season 3, anyone else?
- Thread starter Ometiklan
- Start date
I disregard all Gatekeeper comments ("Star Trek 1966-2005", "It's not Star Trek!" and the like) and anything that sounds like someone is parroting the Fandom Menace. There's also another little extra step that I took that I won't talk about...
... but all of those things have helped me to make it through the season on here. I came into this prepared.
... but all of those things have helped me to make it through the season on here. I came into this prepared.
Ive never agreed with every single point in a post more than this.
...and this as well.
No, then I would have had to listen to 7-8 pages of people bitching about fanwank and small universe syndrome or whatever.
Fans need to make up their minds. We get a rather unique and creative reason, and everyone would rather have the fanwank nod to VOY rationale? But yet, if it would have been fanwank, people would have bitched about that. If it would have been a purposeful act by a villain, people would have bitched about having yet another mega baddie.
Can’t win.
I very much enjoy watching the show, I've just become very jaded toward all the extreme criticisms thrown at DISCOVERY and the current Trek shows around here.
I use to enjoy coming to the Trek BBS and reading other's thoughts about the different shows.
But lately, not so much.
It might be because this last year was so damn strange and unnerving, or it might be that I've become over saturated and tired of what seems to be a constant flow of people finding the most nitpick of things to bitch about and casting blame on the creators of the show.
We have always done that to some extent, but I remember when we also use to find ways and reasons to counter what we've seen, without harping, berating and casting dispersions on the writers and producers of the show.
I agree. It’s not fun. It’s tiresome and repetitive and I post in here FAR less than I did in the past. It’s just played out. Same people, same complaints. No mercy from anyone who has had their mind made up from the beginning. I know exactly what most people are going to say before I even log on now. Predictably banal and angry, and it sucks the joy out of the process for me. Entirely.
On the topic at hand, I think this is DSC’s weakest season. I liked S1 best, S2 second.
Still, I like it better than the first two seasons of DS9, more than half of TNG, and all of VOY and ENT. So, yes, while it is trending down for me, I still put it in the top 1/3 of the franchise. We’ll see how I feel after the finale.
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Haaaa, yes. My "favorite" of the bunch. That's why I've had this signature for a long time. (I went by a different name on here between 2010 and 2017 or so.)
There are entire patches of posts I just skip past as soon as I see the poster’s names. You know exactly what’s coming. Even when they try (?) to be balanced (and some do make a good faith effort), it still just reads as disingenuous and forced, and they still spend 75% of their posts bitching about trivialities or foundational elements (like Burnham) that simply AREN’T going to change.
I basically just move on the minute anyone complains about Burnham, too much crying, too much action, or “TEH RIGHTERS / PRODOOSERS/CURTSMAN IZ TEH SUX!!!1!” Even if someone has a potentially valid point...I don’t care. I’m just tired of hearing the same stuff from the same people. We get it...there’s foundational reasons the show hasn’t resonated with you from day one. No need to read-iterate it. Seriously. No need.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I also immediately scroll past any mentions of The Mandelorian or The Orville as points of comparison. Even Picard vs Kirk arguments are more compelling and intellectually stimulating...and that’s saying a lot.
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Frankly, this is why I can only bring myself to visit the site a couple of times a week. I've never been the most prolific writer here (though I had fun DS9 and Babylon 5 rewatch threads back in 2011-2012 or so) but as someone who greatly enjoys most of this "Second Renaissance", I can't deal with the negativity. I've got too much else going on in life. I'm totally on board with discussing differing opinions on the modern shows but a lot of it is precisely akin to your examples above. It's exhausting.
Thankfully, there are cool people here. Like you.
TrekMovie.com (where I don't actually post) now warns for gatekeeping because of how often it derailed discussions over there. I think it's one of the smartest moves they ever made.
A lot of people here are good folks and mean well...so it’s not personal for me (for the most part lol)...but it just sucks the joy out of the entire process for me. I can’t even enjoy an episode any longer without thinking “oh, the usual suspect will be all up-in-arms over <insert typical over-discussed gripe here>“ and it impacts my enjoyment of the show.
I’m not letting that happen anymore. I just don’t read 80% of the episode posts now. Which saddens me...as I used to enjoy that process. But as soon as I see a post by someone I’m already well aware of what their stance / reaction will be, I just scroll by.
Because
1. You know damn well what they will say
2. You know damn well debating with them is a black hole to nowhere.
Honestly, yeah, it's tiresome but I can't help but be morbidly curious as to what the existence of Discovery takes away? So, I'm a bit naive and keep asking hoping that there will be an answer. But, yeah, it usualy ends up coming back to the same foundational complaints since day one and I'm like "Then why watch the show? If something so foundational as a character is that frustrating then there is no way it is worth it to watch it Life is too short to watch stuff I don't like.
The ironic thing is, a loooooong time ago (way before 2010) there was one poster here who was famous for that type of signature whose posts I enjoyed reading and I got along with quite well. I thought he was insightful.
I think that's the key difference. If you've got a point to make and a train of thought that I don't think is hypocritical, I can respect an alternate point of view. It's lazy, un-insightful, hypocritical drive-bys that I don't like. My rule of thumb is: How easily can I punch a hole in their argument? If it's hard for me to do, then they've made a good case and it adds to the discussion if they're serious about having one.
The fandom lately has been bringing me down. I have been watching Star Trek for 25 years. The amount of gatekeeping and vitriol towards Discovery is honestly out of control. These forums are honestly the least toxic, Reddit and the Discord is constantly "hur dur, Discovery bad, Burnham Mary Sue." It honestly gets tiring.
I can't even enjoy an episode and discuss it with anyone anymore. YouTube videos are constantly attacked, The Orville gets brought up every single time. If I knew the fandom was like this I would have never became a fan. IDK WTF is going on lately, but I partially blame RLM and Midnight's Edge for just having the negativity grow into what it is now.
People are honestly at this point, nitpicking the dumbest thing, and acting like TNG is god's gift to mankind, and has ZERO fault, and always dismiss them. At this point I don't know what to do, because it makes me nervous that the toxic fans will affect what the writers write for newer seasons.
People have come into places just to complain about Discovery, "why do you watch it?" "because I have to force myself, so I can basically continue to complain about it and tell you why you are wrong for liking it."
Also all the "forced agenda" posts are REALLY pissing me off, especially me being LGBTQ.
Same here. But there are settings that help with that. I also skip any post that's about SW or Orville, cause I'm not interested in those (as much) and don't see any point in comparing them. My motivation to visit, read, and post here has gone up since I started using that automated skipping function more often. I do give people several chances, but when it becomes clear they're precisely that kinda people that you describe, auto-skip it is. Every few months, I revisit the settings, and take those out who I don't even remember (cause I forgot the reason why they drove me crazy). Some, like those black hole people, will stay there.
The funniest gatekeeping argument I've read is from people who simply happened to be born decades before others and happened to watch TOS when it first came out. They say only they are the real/true fans. I don't think anyone takes them seriously.
That's the best strategy. Some of them will be easy punches, immediate holes, but they'll insist that they're still right. I guess it's a sign of the times. People live in bubbles and won't admit that their logic, their way of thinking, or simply their interpretation could be wrong. Real evidence is dismissed as fake. Counterarguments are ignored. Then any further interaction with them is simply a waste of time. Sadly, what happens in real life (politics and news), even happens here. How do we reverse it?
I've been at this on bulletin boards from my late-teens to my early-40s. From DS9/VOY to DSC/PIC. From Clinton to soon Biden...How do we reverse it?
... and I have no clue.
This kind of thread seems to come up, every time a Disco season is ending. I consider myself someone who likes good TV, which we had a lot of during the last 15 years or so.
I see Disco as what it is: a big budget Star Trek TV show. Most of the people (just like myself) who bitch about Disco continuity errors and canon violations are actually annoyed by the bad writing and character development of this show.
When it comes to quality of writing, I am comparing this show to Breaking Bad / The Wire / Sopranos / True Detective and all the other great stuff which has been produced over the course of the last 2 decades. Hand on the heart; Disco sinks in comparison to good contemporary TV, even though the money is there.
Just bring on a good show and we will stop bitching, i promise...
I see Disco as what it is: a big budget Star Trek TV show. Most of the people (just like myself) who bitch about Disco continuity errors and canon violations are actually annoyed by the bad writing and character development of this show.
When it comes to quality of writing, I am comparing this show to Breaking Bad / The Wire / Sopranos / True Detective and all the other great stuff which has been produced over the course of the last 2 decades. Hand on the heart; Disco sinks in comparison to good contemporary TV, even though the money is there.
Just bring on a good show and we will stop bitching, i promise...
I'm a huge fan of Better Call Saul and I like Discovery just fine. All the shows you listed are about cops and criminals. A very specific genre. Discovery is a different animal. All this indicates to me is that your tastes have shifted, which is perfectly fine and happens, but you haven't fully moved on yet.
And the "last 2 decades" is curious. What was wrong with '90s TV?
EDIT: For the space-based sci-fi genre, I've heard very good things about The Expanse. But with The Orville and The Mandalorian? It's just "Star Trek vs. Star Wars" and "Star Trek vs. A Star Trek Rip-Off" crap. It's all tribalism. It always has been. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Farscape and Battlestar Galactica? With Farscape there's a point to be made. With Battlestar Galactica, I personally think it fell apart during the latter-half. I haven't kept up with the last few seasons of Doctor Who, but I did watch the first seven modern seasons. It's roughly on par with Discovery Seasons 2 and 3. Tonally. And I don't notice this huge, massive quality difference.
On that note, I'm going to bed. So it might be several hours before I can dive into this again. So, if I don't respond for a while, that's why.
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Actually i just forgot about The Mandalorian, my favorite current tv/streaming show. Mando is also a good example of how you add a good show to your long term sci-fi franchise without:
- time jumps
- canon violations
- unnecessary design updates
and still have great cinematography, a coherent plot, good music and a touch of nostalgia.
Disco season 3 had a good premise story wise but they took too many wrong turns and eventually got caught up in the minutia of connecting storylines.
The emerald chain / Osyra storyline was just plainly unnecessary. Exploring the cause of The Burn could have given us a great sci-fi storyline. Now they wrap things up in the last episode again...
Wasting 2 episodes on giving Mirror Georgiou an introduction for her own TV show (plus good riddance for an evil dictator) put the icing on the cake
The only thing the Mandalorian really has going for it is the cinematography. The rest is just a complete mess. Mando is nothing more than a cipher who is only interesting because of baby yoda and it's clear that the showrunners have zero faith in their main character, because they have to keep introducing pre-existing characters that are more interesting than him. Introducing four legacy characters in the space of an 8 episode season is not 'a touch of nostalgia' it's blatant, unadulterated fan wank and actually served to diminish Mando as the lead character. It's also clear that show is now just a sausage machine for the unending star wars spinoffs Disney have planned which is a real detriment to a series that deserves space to breath and establish itself.
As a fan, the Mandalorian season 2 is some of the most disappointing television I have watched in a long time.
Well, that's the first time I've seen that opinion. Maybe I should get out more.
Personally, Mando is the only thing giving me any hope whatsoever for that particular franchise going forward.
Trek ? Are Disco and Picard perfect ?
No. Are they good ?
Mileage obviously may vary, but in my book ? Yes, very much so. More so than say, Voyager and Enterprise, although I like both of those to varying degrees. And certainly more than the Kelvinverse movies.
People that don't like shows need not watch. I tried six episodes of Lower Decks and thought it was absolute drivel. I've not bothered watching the last few.
Some people seem to love it. I can't think why, but it's there for them to enjoy.
S3, so far is good at character moments. Not exceptional, not bad, but good. But the setting is incredibly uninteresting to me and the mystery of the season is very "meh, whatever". It's, in my opinion, the weakest of the season so far, but there are still enjoyable moments. I just feel that the weaknesses of the show that were there from it's beginings are now weaker than ever and the strengths of the show, well, are not quite as strong as they were in the seasons before.
This might all change with next season and a new storyline and hopefully they abandon the 51st century setting sooner or later, but I sadly agree with the OP that S3 is slowly losing me
This might all change with next season and a new storyline and hopefully they abandon the 51st century setting sooner or later, but I sadly agree with the OP that S3 is slowly losing me
sorry for the double post here, and you are of course entitled to your opinion, but...
look, I'm not one of those neckbeard SW fans who hates Disney and Kennedy and the sequel trilogy and wants it burned down at all costs. On the contrary. I loved Last Jedi. RoS was disappointing, sure, but every franchise has it's TFF...it's fine.
And I usually despise fan service without reason for fan service.
Even I have to accept that The Mandalorian is a glorious show that does almost everything right. The legacy characters that appear make sense to apear within the context of Din's specific quest. It's exceptional entertainment that never fails to strike the right chord at the right moment. Especially season 2.
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