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Didn't like the movie? How would YOU have made it?

Get rid of the time travel angle and write a story that doesn't conflict with previous Trek, even though the characters would look different of course.

Go ahead. HOW do you write it? Entertain me. Introduce me to this Kirk and Spock. :)

And make the Enterprise look the same inside and out but a bit with less buttons and switches.

Hmm. How many uninitiated viewers, with today's snesibilities in terms of style and believability react to this?

I'm curious. :)
 
I would have made Kirk truer to the original. The whole cliche about the bad boy turning into a hero is so tired. I would have liked to see him earn his ascension to command.

I'd also get rid of some of the clown humor. Kirk with giant hands and a tongue like Jar Jar? Scotty beaming into water tubes? Not. Funny.

Finally, and this is a bit of a nitpick, but the story of these characters' meeting was a bit contrived. With the exception of McCoy, the idea that Kirk met any of this crew while at Starfleet Academy is a stretch -- especially in the case of Chekov, who should be riding bikes and studying Algebra at this point in time.

Everything else I have forgiven -- like plot holes big enough to drive trucks through, the destruction of Vulcan for shock effect, Spock/Uhura, the Enterprise, Red Matter, and the almost continuous disrespect Abrams has shown to the passionate fans which kept money in Paramount's pockets for forty years.

Show me the outline.
 
Get rid of the time travel angle and write a story that doesn't conflict with previous Trek, even though the characters would look different of course.

Go ahead. HOW do you write it? Entertain me. Introduce me to this Kirk and Spock. :)

And make the Enterprise look the same inside and out but a bit with less buttons and switches.

Hmm. How many uninitiated viewers, with today's snesibilities in terms of style and believability react to this?

I'm curious. :)

I have a hard time thinking that Vektor's Enterprise, for example, wouldn't hold water with a modern audience.
 
I could have done without the swollen-hands Kirk, and the lowtech engine room...the former didn't seem to fit in with the fact he was about to offer Pike a VERY crucial bit of info he'd suddenly realized-but it did'nt really kill the impact for me in the end. Abrams wanted I hear a more 'industrial' look for that section of the ship, and perhaps save some on budget, maybe?...but to me, Engineering is the heart, as the Bridge is the brain-control nexus of a starship...and the epitome of the powerful technology that flings man and allies through the cosmos, therefore, it should reflect the advancement suggested by the okay-arguably 'modernized' design-ethic overall of 1701 in the film....
 
As an exercise, and for the fun of it, I though it would be interesting to see how a Star Trek movie would be made by those who were not pleased with JJ Abram's approach.

As a framework, lets assume that you have full creative control, and $150m to spend on the movie.

Some things to consider:
- How would the story break down, beginning to end?
- How would you hook a non-Trek audience into the Star Trek property?
- Do you create a ground-up reboot, or something within continuity?
- What kind of pacing or character interactions would you choose?
- How close, and in what fashion, would you adhere to TOS in terms of design or style?

In short, what would be the RIGHT way to do it, from your perspective?

Break out those creative genes guys !!! :bolian:
Well, I've answered this before, a few times, but my most recent one came from this thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=106452

My answer is near the end of the thread. In case anyone doesn't want to read that entire thread, here's that answer again:
1) No time travel.
2) No "2-dimensions, mustache-twirling villain.".
3) Only three four major TOS characters (Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott).
4) No major redesigns... rather, "polished" versions of things we already know.
5) Minimal presence of the Enterprise in the movie.
6) More characterization.
7) No "cheap shock ploy" of destroying a major world... Alderaan or Vulcan.

My version of this movie would have started with George Kirk on board his ship (for consistency, let's call it the USS Kelvin). He's on a subspace communication line to Earth, talking to his family... Winona, his wife, Sam, his elder son,and Jim, who would be twelve years old. During that communication, the Kelvin encounters something dangerous... ideally something related to what comes later... and communications are lost. George Kirk makes his way to his post, and we see something very much as we saw in the film, except for no "Jim being born" stuff. He gives his life to save the escaping crew and to (temporarily) overcome the problem which risks everyone's life.

We would then cut to Vulcan, where we'd see pretty much the same early Spock scenes. (I'd have made Vulcan more consistent with the Vulcan we know, however... sky color, for instance).

Another cut, to Earth, where an unidentified Starfleet officer (who would,in a "fanboy moment," be identified as Pike... though Jim Kirk wouldn't notice that at the time) delivers the news that George Kirk was killed in the line of duty. Jim Kirk goes stoney... and stays that way for years. (It'll be this movie where we see him start to break out of his hardened shell.)

Cut to Vulcan again... and the young-adult Spock turning down the Vulcan Science Academy appointment... but without the same "Screw you" tone that seemed so out-of-character to me. Think more of Nimoy's treatment of T'Pring at the end of "Amok Time." Totally cold and dismissive.

Next, a shot of Jim Kirk as an academy upperclassman... hard, unyielding, driven to the point of being a martinette. Several of his instructors are reviewing him, along with a few serving line officers. Among these are John Gill, Aaron Stone, and Kirk's academic advisor, Ben Finney. They agree to give him a starship assignment, but express concerns that he doesn't have the "flexibility" needed to serve in command. Captain Pike is present and argues that he sees something there, however.

Flash forward... and Lieutenant Kirk is returning to the Academy for his Command Course. Part of this involves teaching underclassmen at the academy (think "graduate assistant). This would permit some exposure as cameos for known characters (Sulu, Uhura) as his students, and we might see a young Pavel Chekov arriving for his first day aboard the same shuttle as Kirk. Kirk would see the Enterprise as they arrive, and would comment to the young recruit that there was nothing he wanted more than the command of a ship like the Enterprise.

Kirk was assigned to this course on the recommendation of Captain Garrovick, immediately prior to his death. Kirk, who had mellowed over time, is tortured over this and is hardening again. He's become a "walking stack of books with legs."

A few months pass, and Kirk is preparing to undergo one of the "Command School" tests... the Kobayashi Maru. Kirk would discuss this with his friend, senior underclassman Gary Mitchell, who would mention to Kirk that he needed to hook him up with this cute blonde lab technician he'd met, and that Kirk just needed to lighten up and accept that sometimes you just don't win... after all, "we're not gods, are we?" Kirk proves his skill by reprogramming the "respawn enemy vessels" mode of the simulation (which is what makes it unwinnable) to fail. Kirk fights through the scenario, and after defeating a three-to-one fight, is able to rescue the crew of the Maru. The ONLY thing Kirk did was remove the "cheat" from the program... no "smug asshole" tone from him like we got in this movie. Rather, we see him breaking his "by the book" pattern... and that's what gets him the commendation.

Immediately after this is the "evaluation cruise." Kirk was bucking to get a cruise on the Enterprise, under Pike, but while some of the Academy staff approve of his "Kobayashi Maru" solution (even so much as managing to get him a commendation), a few are still hostile to him over that, and one of those is the one responsible for assigning ships for the cruise. Instead of getting assigned to the Enterprise, Kirk gets assigned to an old police cutter. The Academy "evaluator" on this particular ship is a very competent but very unpopular officer, the only Vulcan in Starfleet... Spock.

(At this point, we're about 1 hour into the movie, by the way.)

During the cruise, Kirk and Spock "rub each other wrong," for reasons we can imagine from the TOS characters' personality traits. However, unlike in the new movie, they handle things in a very professional manner... the tension is actually stronger that way (think about how Kirk dealt with the ambassador in "The Galileo 7.")

During the cruise, this ship (let's call it the "Peregrin") receives a distress signal from a civilian vessel. Kirk recognizes the interference patterns in the distress signal, just before losing the signal, as being what he'd seen when his father died. He and Spock come into conflict over how to handle the situation... "by the book" or "by my guts." Kirk, who's usually thought of as being "by the book," instead is reacting purely "by my gut."

The Peregrine arrives, and is hit by the same "event" that has struck the civilian vessel... resulting in the bridge of the Peregrin being destroyed, killing the senior officers and leaving Kirk and Spock as the two most senior officers aboard. Kirk prevails, but not without ongoing opposition, as he's the "command school" officer (while Spock thinks that he's the logical choice).

The Peregrine, itself damaged, now has to deal with rescuing the civilian ship, a massive passenger liner, and saving itself as well.

Arriving aboard the liner, they encounter the ship's civilian engineer, a former starfleet officer named Montgomery Scott. They also find a disillusioned civilian doctor, on his way off-planet after a particularly ugly divorce, named Leonard McCoy, helping to deal with casualties.

The technical details don't matter... suffice it to say that Kirk's command skills, Spock's logic and analytical capabilities, and Scott's technical talents combine to save the personnel aboard both vessels, while McCoy and Kirk bond, Kirk and Spock develop a strong mutual respect, and Scott becomes known to Kirk as a "miracle worker."

At the end, Kirk is granted a position as first officer of the USS Alexander, a destroyer-class ship... and Scott decides to rejoin Starfleet, asking if Kirk thinks the Alexander could use an old engineer... and McCoy realizes that Starfleet (and men like those he'd just met) could give his life meaning again.

As Kirk is preparing to report to the Alexander, he encounters Spock, who is preparing to return to his assignment aboard the Enterprise, under Captain Pike. There is a "warm" moment between them.

During the final scene, we see the Alexander leaving orbit, and Kirk is making a log entry. The Alexander flies past the Enterprise on the way, as Kirk talks about his optimism about the future ahead of him.

THAT is the movie I would have made. No "villain." No tossing out history (but no slavish "fanboy moments" either). Different design work, because we'd be seeing different ships... but we'd see the familiar designs as well. No "everything happens at one moment and stays that way forever after, amen."

The next movie could be about Kirk taking command of the Enterprise. We'd have Kirk, Spock, Scott, and Sulu from the original characters... plus Gary Mitchell.

If there was a third movie, we'd have the entire TOS "crew" present, serving on the TOS (ish) Enterprise, at some point between WNMHGB and the beginning of Season 1. (Chekov might be there, but not as a bridge crew member.)
 
Okay, how about a treatment, a bullet-point list, with a plot for the movie?

I'm interested to see how the challenge of coming up with a basic movie story that works could be done within established Canon.

Well, I wouldn't adhere to cannon 100%, but I will try to be reasonable. I know that you want more detail OneBuckFilms but right now I just have vague ideas about what movie I would make. Sorry.

*Opening Sequence*: Okay, I'll rip-off opening of XI and "Balance of Terror" somewhat.
*We start out with foreboding music and a badly damaged ship (a predecessor to Constitution) limping through space.
*next scene, bridge: everyone is dead except for Captain Garth and a young Lt. Pike. It is a tense situation in which a fleet has been destroyed by "invisible ships" that attack at will. No one has ever encountered this before. to explain things to non-fans, we can have Garth saying how crucial it is to win because the existence of the federation is at stake and then he goes on and mentions why it is so great. Pike is shaken and wants to get the ship the hell out of there, but garth reminds him of starfleet's duty to defend the great federation. so we have some explanation to non-fans of the Federation and Starfleet. Garth wins brillinatly of course (somehow, not sure yet) and we end the prologue
 
I'll call my prologue the first battle of the Romulan War for the sake of cannon.
*after prologue, start of film* (again, a very vague sketch)

*first scene: Kirk being given command of Enterprise. Older Pike turns over command to Kirk in official ceremony.
*next: A more informal scene, in Pike's office. Kirk is there, it is established that Pike is retiring for personal reasons. Pike lectures him about what a good captain does and does not do. He recounts his hero, Garth, and how he was the epitome of captainhood, (which is in line with "Dagger of the Mind" and Kirk's view of his first CO, Garrevick). He recalls that battle that started the Romulan War. He tells Kirk how the Enterprise already has a lot of great history behind her(pride of starfleet, defender of the Federation) and essentially tells him not to screw this up (Kirk being the youngest captain and all).
 
Okay, how about a treatment, a bullet-point list, with a plot for the movie?

I'm interested to see how the challenge of coming up with a basic movie story that works could be done within established Canon.

Pick up any Trek novel. Those guys manage to work within canon all the time and they usually do a great job.

It takes a creatively blind individual to view space, the final frontier, as being too void of stories to find. Paramount should hire Diane Duane, Vonda N. McIntyre, Diane Carey, Margaret Wander Bonanno, A.C. Crispin, Peter David, and all the other great TOS writers.

Oh, and just because Kirk can't die doesn't mean the drama is gone. TV shows go on all the time knowing that a main character will not (or at least is highly unlikely to) die. Abrams and his team are simply too lazy and untalented to work within an established setting. It's too hard to play by the rules.

This. :techman:
 
Scene one:

fade in
man at desk in elaborate victorian office/library.

Mr. Director: Greetings, I'm Mr Director of your new ST film.

man picks up script

Mr. Director: this is the script

man throws script in fireplace

Mr. Director: this was about 100 times better than that script was, i promise you.

fade out to credits.
 
Get rid of the time travel angle and write a story that doesn't conflict with previous Trek, even though the characters would look different of course.

Go ahead. HOW do you write it? Entertain me. Introduce me to this Kirk and Spock. :)

And make the Enterprise look the same inside and out but a bit with less buttons and switches.

Hmm. How many uninitiated viewers, with today's snesibilities in terms of style and believability react to this?

I'm curious. :)

I have a hard time thinking that Vektor's Enterprise, for example, wouldn't hold water with a modern audience.

That I'd go with. Good design, if a little on the greebly and blocky side. But I'd go with it.
 
Okay, how about a treatment, a bullet-point list, with a plot for the movie?

I'm interested to see how the challenge of coming up with a basic movie story that works could be done within established Canon.

Pick up any Trek novel. Those guys manage to work within canon all the time and they usually do a great job.

It takes a creatively blind individual to view space, the final frontier, as being too void of stories to find. Paramount should hire Diane Duane, Vonda N. McIntyre, Diane Carey, Margaret Wander Bonanno, A.C. Crispin, Peter David, and all the other great TOS writers.

Oh, and just because Kirk can't die doesn't mean the drama is gone. TV shows go on all the time knowing that a main character will not (or at least is highly unlikely to) die. Abrams and his team are simply too lazy and untalented to work within an established setting. It's too hard to play by the rules.

This. :techman:

Perhaps, a specific example that would be accessible to someone with little to no knowledge of Star Trek. How would it work?

How would you introduce James Kirk? What, exactly, would we see scene-by-scene?
 
Okay, how about a treatment, a bullet-point list, with a plot for the movie?

I'm interested to see how the challenge of coming up with a basic movie story that works could be done within established Canon.

Well, I wouldn't adhere to cannon 100%, but I will try to be reasonable. I know that you want more detail OneBuckFilms but right now I just have vague ideas about what movie I would make. Sorry.

*Opening Sequence*: Okay, I'll rip-off opening of XI and "Balance of Terror" somewhat.
*We start out with foreboding music and a badly damaged ship (a predecessor to Constitution) limping through space.
*next scene, bridge: everyone is dead except for Captain Garth and a young Lt. Pike. It is a tense situation in which a fleet has been destroyed by "invisible ships" that attack at will. No one has ever encountered this before. to explain things to non-fans, we can have Garth saying how crucial it is to win because the existence of the federation is at stake and then he goes on and mentions why it is so great. Pike is shaken and wants to get the ship the hell out of there, but garth reminds him of starfleet's duty to defend the great federation. so we have some explanation to non-fans of the Federation and Starfleet. Garth wins brillinatly of course (somehow, not sure yet) and we end the prologue

I like a lot about this, actually.

Good action, a tense scene.

A couple of issues:
- Captain Pike has a vague defense of something the audience has no reason to care about.
- The lecture might be informative, but might slow things down unless it is really brief.
- The audience is emotionally invested in Captain Garth and Captain Pike, if the scene is well done, but there is no connection as yet to Kirk and crew.

But not bad. :techman:
 
I'll call my prologue the first battle of the Romulan War for the sake of cannon.
*after prologue, start of film* (again, a very vague sketch)

*first scene: Kirk being given command of Enterprise. Older Pike turns over command to Kirk in official ceremony.
*next: A more informal scene, in Pike's office. Kirk is there, it is established that Pike is retiring for personal reasons. Pike lectures him about what a good captain does and does not do. He recounts his hero, Garth, and how he was the epitome of captainhood, (which is in line with "Dagger of the Mind" and Kirk's view of his first CO, Garrevick). He recalls that battle that started the Romulan War. He tells Kirk how the Enterprise already has a lot of great history behind her(pride of starfleet, defender of the Federation) and essentially tells him not to screw this up (Kirk being the youngest captain and all).

I like this approach to some degree, but this feels a little like it's falling into the Biopic trap.

Is this movie about Kirk's first command, or is it about him becoming Captain?

If it is about him becoming Captain, perhaps Kirk should be a lieutenant at introduction, meeting Pike for the first time.

If Kirk has to earn his stripes, being handed command with a lecture might not be the best way to go here.

Also, it feels slightly disjointed from the opening, since Captain Pike was fighting this battle, then suddenly we're meeting someone else in a completely different situation, and hearing Pike telling him not to screw it up.

If we save this lecture until later, and use your Prologue in flashback form during the lecture, after we've spent some time with a younger Kirk, it might work much better.
 
If only this was 2006 and I had some kind of influence over JJ Abrams and his writing team... then whatever I could come up with would actually matter. It's no exaggeration to say I've never been dissatisified with Star Trek before this. Maybe because nobody has ever crossed that line and purposely decided to throw out so much before. It would have be nice to be able to state my case to the new management of the value of staying within that original universe, or at the very least have had enough aspects left open to interpretation. Capable of being viewed as both a prequel and a reboot... fudging issues such as set design and updated FX as revisions for the sake of a modern audience.

Coming down with the ruling that all screen Star Trek from now on has to happen in the Abramsverse (or whatever its official title will be), that's just not what I wanted at all...

I simply don't agree that to be successful, it meant throwing out everything deemed too difficult to work around. They found a way of avoiding contradicting established continuity alright, by not trying very hard to stay true to it at all.

The selling point is a no-brainer. A story telling the origin of how Kirk, Spock and McCoy found their way to their iconic roles was always destined to be box office gold. I feel cheated because that's not what I got at all. It was something alternate instead, with a Kirk radically changed and a Spock forever robbed of his home world to go back to... both circumstances created by a villain who wasn't supposed to be there in the first place.
 
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i've never ever ever ever ever ever (get the point yet) met a prequel i liked, so for me it was doomed from the start.
 
I like Starship Exeter better. Go to Starshippolaris website, to Starship Exeter news and discussion, then to characters and stories and check out 'Will of the people'.
 
I don't think people who disiked the movie should be asked how they would've done it better. Some people just don't like things.

I loved this movie, and there's things that I wish were done diffeent, but overall I think it's a movie that mostly worked for re-establishing the universe.
 
I would have made Kirk truer to the original. The whole cliche about the bad boy turning into a hero is so tired. I would have liked to see him earn his ascension to command.

I'd also get rid of some of the clown humor. Kirk with giant hands and a tongue like Jar Jar? Scotty beaming into water tubes? Not. Funny.

Finally, and this is a bit of a nitpick, but the story of these characters' meeting was a bit contrived. With the exception of McCoy, the idea that Kirk met any of this crew while at Starfleet Academy is a stretch -- especially in the case of Chekov, who should be riding bikes and studying Algebra at this point in time.

Everything else I have forgiven -- like plot holes big enough to drive trucks through, the destruction of Vulcan for shock effect, Spock/Uhura, the Enterprise, Red Matter, and the almost continuous disrespect Abrams has shown to the passionate fans which kept money in Paramount's pockets for forty years.

Amen to the first point. The idea of a jerk Kirk is a myth from people who never really watched Classic Trek. :vulcan:

Regarding point number 2, I understand the desire to have comedy, but I thought the scene with Scotty beaming into a water pipe was a waste of time. What was the purpose of the scene? To show that Kirk would rescue fellow crew members in trouble? :klingon:

And you're right with 3. Anything that puts McCoy and Chekov in the same time frame needs rethinking unless the doctor is making house calls and delivers a baby boy to the Chekov family. :rommie:
 
Actually, this is very good. It has most of the elements, and has some great character ideas.

It also takes a couple of ideas from the movie, but as a whole, I like it. :techman:

Well, I've answered this before, a few times, but my most recent one came from this thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=106452

My answer is near the end of the thread. In case anyone doesn't want to read that entire thread, here's that answer again:
1) No time travel.
2) No "2-dimensions, mustache-twirling villain.".
3) Only three four major TOS characters (Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scott).
4) No major redesigns... rather, "polished" versions of things we already know.
5) Minimal presence of the Enterprise in the movie.
6) More characterization.
7) No "cheap shock ploy" of destroying a major world... Alderaan or Vulcan.

My version of this movie would have started with George Kirk on board his ship (for consistency, let's call it the USS Kelvin). He's on a subspace communication line to Earth, talking to his family... Winona, his wife, Sam, his elder son,and Jim, who would be twelve years old. During that communication, the Kelvin encounters something dangerous... ideally something related to what comes later... and communications are lost. George Kirk makes his way to his post, and we see something very much as we saw in the film, except for no "Jim being born" stuff. He gives his life to save the escaping crew and to (temporarily) overcome the problem which risks everyone's life.

Whereas it would not have had quite the impact of the movie, it's damn close. Nice.

We would then cut to Vulcan, where we'd see pretty much the same early Spock scenes. (I'd have made Vulcan more consistent with the Vulcan we know, however... sky color, for instance).

ex-astris scientia has something about the Vulcan sky color. Not as consistent as one might think. Still, sounds good.

Another cut, to Earth, where an unidentified Starfleet officer (who would,in a "fanboy moment," be identified as Pike... though Jim Kirk wouldn't notice that at the time) delivers the news that George Kirk was killed in the line of duty. Jim Kirk goes stoney... and stays that way for years. (It'll be this movie where we see him start to break out of his hardened shell.)

I would have tacked Kirk hearing about his father's death earlier in the movie, perhaps before Vulcan. But great stuff.

Cut to Vulcan again... and the young-adult Spock turning down the Vulcan Science Academy appointment... but without the same "Screw you" tone that seemed so out-of-character to me. Think more of Nimoy's treatment of T'Pring at the end of "Amok Time." Totally cold and dismissive.

Certainly works to convey who the Vulcans are, and something of Spock.

I'll have to continue later. Pretty nice though.
 
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