Spoilers Did Picard finally ''right the ship'' with Picard season 3?

[Nyotarules]

but somehow this is "feels like Trek" level content? That I don't get. And I probably never will.

It is an interesting phrase, considering the Trek we have on Paramount plus have their major differences as well as a few similarities and its all Trek, what does 'feel like Trek' even mean?
"This is the Trek I like, so this is the default Trek that must be shown from now on, here endeth the lesson"?

 

[fireproof78]

The same people being swarmed by people calling themselves "real fans" basically saying "Eff what you liked about Trek cause real Trek is back" is just a bad look for me. It's all Trek whether you liked the first two season or not. Just called it didn't feel like trek to you doesn't mean it didn't mean something to others. That's I guess a big part about rubs me the wrong way with a lot of the praise and discourse around this season.

Unfortunately, yes, this is how I feel. I have a little bit of a reminder of 6th grade and being mocked for liking TOS instead of TNG. It runs deep in the Trek history but seeing it online, lacking some of the emotional context, makes it far more visceral and painful, possibly unintentionally. But, it rubs wrong and raw.

It is an interesting phrase, considering the Trek we have on Paramount plus have their major differences as well as a few similarities and its all Trek, what does 'feel like Trek' even mean?
"This is the Trek I like, so this is the default Trek that must be shown from now on, here endeth the lesson"?

This is indeed my question and the answer you put forth seems to be it, except it's rather unreflected upon. It just is accepted as truth.

 

[Nyotarules]

Unfortunately, yes, this is how I feel. I have a little bit of a reminder of 6th grade and being mocked for liking TOS instead of TNG. It runs deep in the Trek history but seeing it online, lacking some of the emotional context, makes it far more visceral and painful, possibly unintentionally. But, it rubs wrong and raw.

Ironic for a franchise that is about celebrating differences, accepting different points of view (that are not harmful to others) some of its real life fans have issues with that concept.

 

[Farscape One]

But, it rubs wrong and raw.

We should all just Rub With Love.

(I can't get a picture here, but it was a seasoning company that made rubs for meats. Whole Foods sold them in stores years ago, but I don't know if they still exist.)

 

[Campe]

You don't have to like every episode and every season and every series and every movie. I think generally the people at TrekBBS have tried since 2017 to be respectful if someone does or doesn't appreciate a particular entry. (Let's not talk the days of Enterprise. That was a mess.) Even the popular ones. But this recent swing into, "Its popular so its real Star Trek." No. All of its real Star Trek. I am not putting up with the bullshit gatekeeping that's present on mainstream social media. I did that for a bit and I'm done with it. Star Trek is a big tent. Star Trek is many things to many people. Just respect other people's opinions. Is that too much to ask?

 

[Nyotarules]

We should all just Rub With Love.

(I can't get a picture here, but it was a seasoning company that made rubs for meats. Whole Foods sold them in stores years ago, but I don't know if they still exist.)

Good idea,

As for the question, the Picard ship hit choppy waters in all Three seasons but thankfully did not sink, so no, Season 3 did not right anything IMO.

 

[Campe]

I’m going to do what I don’t normally do and suggest a podcast. I’ve suggested it before in regards to Picard season 3 and I feel after the conversation here the past few days, I think it’s very relevant. Mission Log Live: A Roddenberry Podcast took a look at the entire season in their latest episode. They’ve looked at each episode individually and have been a little critical but in this episode, right around the 1 hour mark, there’s a caller who does in fact call out the season for exactly what a lot of us have been saying here. One of the hosts basically say that they have every right to feel that way and express their opinions. Not sure if the caller (or the host) is one of us (I doubt it but it could be) but it’s nice to see some not 100% with this season opinions validated. Listen. Maybe you’ll learn something.

 

[James Cole]

Again, I'm glad to see the upswell of support. I will push back hard that I am to like it because it's popular. I won't silence that part of my brain for the populist argument. This season had the exact same issues as other newer Trek seasons, including mystery boxes (that people supposedly hate) and action that doesn't always make sense, but somehow this is "feels like Trek" level content? That I don't get. And I probably never will.

I don't think anyone is saying that season 3 should be above constructive criticism or that Terry Matalas is infallible. Nor do I think there should be an echo chamber that tries to silence dissent or alternative points of view. Just that there seems to be a lot of circumstantial evidence that PICARD season 3 has been better received compared to other NuTrek seasons, and people that liked season 3 are going to want more of this, and less of that.

People that have tried to criticize NuTrek over the past 5 years have been accused of being gatekeepers or worse. That trying to point out DISCOVERY, which took far more liberties with established continuity than ENT (which faced disproportionate scorn for what it did do 20 years ago) are being tedious or pedantic or need to get their eyes checked when people that have worked on the franchise have expressed the same concerns. That PICARD season 1 went way too dark and was a "bull in a china shop" regarding various aspects of the Berman era.

It's amazing that almost everyone here is a fan of some of the 1966-2005 work. Those managed to please a wider proportion of the population. So if the franchise is going to slice and dice the fanbase, at least serve the segments proportionally.

But, to be clear, I appreciate your clarity and articulation because at least I get where you are coming from. That goes a long way to helping me understand, even if I don't fully understand.

You have in the past mentioned that you occasionally use hyperbole in your posts, but I've always found you to be a good faith contributor to the conversation. You've also never demeaned people with a different opinion, so that is appreciated.

 

[Campe]

I don't think anyone is saying that season 3 should be above constructive criticism or that Terry Matalas is infallible. Nor do I think there should be an echo chamber that tries to silence dissent or alternative points of view. Just that there seems to be a lot of circumstantial evidence that PICARD season 3 has been better received compared to other NuTrek seasons, and people that liked season 3 are going to want more of this, and less of that.

If that was the only conversation going on here, I’d be all for it. Unfortunately, there is at least one member of this conversation who suggests that our criticisms are irrelevant as it’s sooo popular.

Honesty, @cal888 , I may have given you a hard time early on (and I’m genuinely sorry for that) and while I certainly think that some of your points are a little head scratching, I honestly think you’ve done a good job of being fair with your statements.

 

[TerryTrek]

I was praising Star Trek Picard S3 before it was popular.

Insert hipster meme here

 

[fireproof78]

Paid hype man gig worked out well.

 

[TerryTrek]

Shh.

 

[Campe]

I was praising Star Trek Picard S3 before it was popular.

Insert hipster meme here

Doesn’t make you cool. Sorry.

 

[Sci]

and people that liked season 3 are going to want more of this, and less of that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want more Matalas Trek and more Chabon Trek.

That trying to point out DISCOVERY, which took far more liberties with established continuity than ENT

Nope. ENT takes took liberties with fundamental things like when Starfleet was established and when fundamental technologies like transporters and phasers were invented, and long-established things about Vulcan history and culture and the history of the Klingons. By contrast, the things DIS "took liberties" with are positively tame -- mostly the spore drive and Michael being Spock's adopted sister.

(which faced disproportionate scorn for what it did do 20 years ago) are being tedious or pedantic or need to get their eyes checked when people that have worked on the franchise have expressed the same concerns. That PICARD season 1 went way too dark and was a "bull in a china shop" regarding various aspects of the Berman era.

Sorry, but those people are wrong. PIC S1 did not go way too dark and was not a bull in a China shop. It was a thoughtful, loving deconstruction-and-reaffirmation of ST in the creative tradition of DS9.

It's amazing that almost everyone here is a fan of some of the 1966-2005 work. Those managed to please a wider proportion of the population.

Citation needed.

 

[gvn2fly]

In an interview with trekmovie.com he said that he left season 2 after the early episodes to fully concentrate on season 3. He also said that he wanted to tell a more ambitious time travel story (which is his thing) but the other writers objected. He was clearly not in charge of season 2. The final result was a compromise that was also limited by time, budget and Covid.

But what does "after the early episodes" mean? After the early episodes were written or produced? The season 3 writers room was composed of the season 2 writers so it doesn't follow that the writers room was working on season 3 while the same people were working on and writing season 2.

 

[fireproof78]

It's amazing that almost everyone here is a fan of some of the 1966-2005 work. Those managed to please a wider proportion of the population. So if the franchise is going to slice and dice the fanbase, at least serve the segments proportionally.

Which it has. That's the point of the diversity of product. Season 3 is good, and I am greatly looking forward to Discovery Season 5 and Starfleet Academy.

You have in the past mentioned that you occasionally use hyperbole in your posts, but I've always found you to be a good faith contributor to the conversation. You've also never demeaned people with a different opinion, so that is appreciated.

Thank you. Very kind. I don't always see eye to eye, especially on the YT side, but you articulate your side well.

 

[hellojane]

people that liked season 3 are going to want more of this, and less of that.

I hear you on this and I agree! I feel like, and certainly hope, there can be room for everyone to find a show or whatever going forward that gives them what they want.

Also, to add to some of what's been said above, I know we've gone back and forth the past few days. I was always trying to come at this conversation in good faith and to hear out your side of of things and I know you were as well. Even though we disagreed, I found you expressed your views well and I could see where you were coming from. I enjoyed the conversation and getting a perspective different than mine. Again, there's space in Trek for everyone and hopefully for everyone to get what they want out of it going forward show wise.

 

[James Cole]

Thank you. Very kind. I don't always see eye to eye, especially on the YT side, but you articulate your side well.

&

Also, to add to some of what's been said above, I know we've gone back and forth the past few days. I was always trying to come at this conversation in good faith and to hear out your side of of things and I know you were as well. Even though we disagreed, I found you expressed your views well and I could see where you were coming from. I enjoyed the conversation and getting a perspective different than mine. Again, there's space in Trek for everyone and hopefully for everyone to get what they want out of it going forward show wise.

At the end of the day most of us are all arguing about the tyranny of small differences, but with actual people on the other side of the keyboard.

 

[Kirk1980]

The biggest fault most people have is not even being able to recognize thoughtful criticism. Where 'such and such didn't work for me' is viewed as an insult.

But that also likely comes from how many say they intend to give good criticism, but end up using belittling language.

Another pet peeve of mine is when a few examples are found where something that is viewed positively purportedly did the same thing as whatever is being discussed. What bothers me about it is that it's as if past mistakes are license for current and future mistakes, instead of an example to be avoided and learn from.

 

[TerryTrek]

Doesn’t make you cool. Sorry.

Weren't you just preaching about respecting other posters on this forum?

That didn't last long.