Bonté Divine, how did you come to the hypothesis that Seven could become jealous of the relationship between Janeway & Chakotay, once she married Chakotay? :-O
...Sorry but I do not see what could change things afterwards, especially if Seven and Chakotay were now a married couple. Janeway can still share informal briefing with Chakotay once a week in her quarters (while Seven is doing something else, working or sharing entertaining time with friends), invite the couple for a diner or be invited by the couple, etc... so, I don't see her turning suddenly into home wrecker, now that her best friend and the young woman she considers like a daughter are a married couple. At worst, will she think of all the occasions that she missed to become a wife and why, maybe a mother herself but I'm pretty sure that she will do her best to make Chakotay/Seven work. And to keep ensure the happiness and well being of Seven.
My comment about C/7 & J I tossed off rather tongue in cheek just to see if it stimulated any comments. And how! I appreciate the great analysis you did,
Ghislaine! I do agree with you that Captain Janeway would not do anything deliberate to sabotage C&7’s relationship.
I think my feeling that Seven’s relationship with Chakotay could bring out jealousy in her comes from her reaction when Icheb was taken back to his parents. Seven’s affection for the boy was expressed in a kind of possessiveness, and distrust of the parents. Now, as it turned out her accusation was right in this case that the parents were not fit, although I’m not so sure her claim was from instinct but rather out of an immature impulse.
As you have pointed out yourself, while Seven’s body is that of a mature woman, her emotional development is still catching up. It is not uncommon for young women in relationships to experience jealousy, especially if they are feeling insecure, whether with reason or not. Seven may not have paid much attention to the Captain and Commander’s friendship previously, but as her relationship with Chakotay progressed, she might begin to make note of their familiarity. If the topic came up, he might even share with her that he had carried a torch for Janeway for awhile, but that had long cooled and he had eyes only for her now, etc etc. Even so, it might bother Seven if there weren’t some adjustments to the friendship, once Chakotay’s a married man.
They could all be one big happy family, although I think it would be wise that he make some adjustments. For example, since Seven is not on a first name basis with the captain, Chakotay probably should refrain from calling her “Kathryn” around his wife (until that time when the captain invites Seven to use her given name herself--I recall how annoyed she was with the Doctor when he used it w/o her permission). And although C & J would need to meet to discuss ship’s business of course, much of that would be with other members of the senior staff anyway, but I think one on one candlelit dinners would no longer be appropriate. However, with both Chakotay and Seven going to dine, and maybe rounding out the dinner party with Tuvok or the Doctor, then that would be "peachy", I think. I would hate to see Janeway become more alone and isolated than she already tends to be.
, I sitll don't understand why Seven didn't informed Janeway about her dating with Chakotay, not necessary when she has began but by the 3rd or 4 date, it might have been time to inform her?!
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And about Endgame, I found Chakotay's attitude towards Janeway particularly improper! She wasn't only his superior although up to consider him as her equal (despite his past in the Maquis), but his best friend too (even if he wished more for a moment!), going up to answer questions about private matters (sometimes, with an inappropriate insistence), but when it came to him, he played the secretive, while the one he courted was none other than Janeway's protégée - what was to punish her to have definitively rejected him?.
I think the writers were trying to pack in a lot in End Game. You always have to remember that it isn’t the character’s fault when they do or omit something, that the writers make them do it!
There was a huge gap considering C&7 were already to the 3rd date. The impression I got from some of their comments was that Seven must have approached Chakotay to “help” her with her research into dating. So it’s possible someone already mentioned the “dating experiment” to Janeway and we just didn’t see it.
I would have liked to have seen that scene of either Seven or Chakotay or someone else informing Janeway about their dating (to see the look on her face—dismayed but brave--? or relieved--? happy for them? or not sure if this is a good idea?). In a way, the scene of the Admiral revealing to Captain Janeway why she wants them to go home now, including the marriage of C/7 but that 7 dies is a version of that scene. The writers would think another such scene in the episode superfluous. Of course, this goes to the bigger problem of not showing us their earlier dating leading up to this moment, when someone might have mentioned the “dating experiment” to the captain.
Chakotay's behavior towards Seven as Kathryn left me an unpleasant feeling. Indeed, as I said in another post, the character gave me the impression of arriving after the battle (fight he refused to deliver, btw - or even pay his mite -, leaving mainly Janeway and the Doctor do all the job), then coming appreciate, enjoy and take advantage of the result, once the project was completed* -> as a reminder, Chakotay, early thought that Tom Paris and later, Seven, were Janeway's personal project!
While not Seven’s main teacher, Chakotay certainly made contributions. His was the first voice to call her by her human name on Voyager and remind her of her origins. He was an authority figure and supported teaching her about obeying the rules and obeying orders. He also encouraged her to expand her interests, and socialize with the crew. And I would point out that Seven did choose Chakotay. It wasn’t like he was sleazily trying to seduce her or taking advantage of a naïve girl. He was letting her take the lead in the courtship. The whole point of helping Seven re-discover her humanity was so that she could become an autonomous, socially functioning woman. You can’t desire that and then be dismayed when she actually makes an individual choice you happen to disagree with. It wasn’t my preference either, but at least I can appreciate it on a creative level.
The writers seemed to be trying to create closure for the character story arcs at the end of the series. Of course my gripe is that few of the characters were given decent arcs and Chakotay’s had virtually none. One of the exceptions of course was Seven. Having her take the step of entering into a romantic relationship allowed her to reach a milestone of her re-discovery of her humanity. Her choice of Chakotay held a certain logic to it IMO, although as I say, the match was not my preference.
Chakotay seemed to put his libido before his duties of moral and material support to his Captain & dear friend, while the latter seemed really need support see comfort and that, wasn't ok for me! He could and should wait to court Seven and
especially not to make her promises that he wasn't sure to hold, like being present at her side, once on Earth!
Mmm? When did Janeway really need Chakotay’s “support and comfort” in End Game? And he and Seven did start dating prior to the admiral coming with her hare-brained scheme to send them home. They could not have foreseen that happening.
Apparently, their match supposedly worked out OK when they just stayed on the ship. Who knows what would happen on Earth? I thought the Voyager novel “Homecoming” broke C/7 up entirely too fast, and was stupidly done. I did break them up in a fanzine story, but I took longer and allowed it to happen more organically. :-)
Personally I kind of think it's odd if a married man has a close relationship with another woman. My brain knows it can be completely innocent and they can be just friends but I know of too many instanses where it ended up not being innocent. My own (ex) husband of 10 years had a close female friend that he would have dinner with often and right away I was never comfortable with it but never asked him not to go. About a year after that started I found out they were sleeping together the whole time.
Sophie, I’m so sorry this painful thing occurred to you. Small comfort to know your instincts were right. I’m old fashioned in that I think when people marry that they be mindful of certain boundaries out of respect for their spouse and their marriage vows. Some men and women can be just friends, but I think even then if you're married to someone else, it’s better to enjoy the friendship in the company of others and recognize and respect the realities of human nature.
