I think it's a rather neat idea, even if it does make the internal hull-to-hull transit a bit more complicated.
Design the Next Enterprise
- Thread starter Shikarnov
- Start date
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40445677@N06/580968539/in/photostream
This is my idea for the warp/slip ring of the Cetea. My goal here was to help make both of the sections look good while separated, so in this case, rather than mounting the ring by the top, I instead mounted it by the middle, sort of like Vulcan vessels. I imagine the top part of the ring resembling a spoiler or roll-bar.
I envision both sections separating from one another by the ring sliding off the front of the secondary hull, similar to how a ring slides off of a finger. I also imagine that the points where the ring slides into the secondary hull blends in seamlessly with the hull plating/deflector grid.
I know that my idea could still use a lot of refinement, but I hope that it is worth something. Anyways, I hope that you like my idea Ihlecreations!
What do you think, want me to continue with some more sketches?
Hi, I'm new
I've already been working on this idea. The warp ring is infectious. I also thought the ring should extend above the saucer. Much of the rest of my choices are based on the fact that I was, essentially converting my DTNE entry to a "Ihle-type ringship", so there's no special significance to my other design choices.
I'm working out the gross details for the battle hull, and once that's done, she's going into mothballs untill I catch up on a ship I promised someone else.
Hmm, interesting direction. If that top section can function as a mission pod (See nebula, titan, etc) then that makes the detached saucer pretty formidable as a combat vessel in the tactical configuation
Honestly, I'm just not really into the "roll bar on primary hull" all that much... I think it makes the design too "busy" as a rule. There are some nice ships that have that, but it's just not "an Enterprise" if it has that, as far as I'm concerned. (And yes, my own concept ended up with that, but it's not "an Enterprise" either, is it?)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40445677@N06/5809685390/in/photostream
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40445677@N06/5809685390/in/photostream
I've already been working on this idea. The warp ring is infectious. I also thought the ring should extend above the saucer. Much of the rest of my choices are based on the fact that I was, essentially converting my DTNE entry to a "Ihle-type ringship", so there's no special significance to my other design choices.
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I'm working out the gross details for the battle hull, and once that's done, she's going into mothballs untill I catch up on a ship I promised someone else.
G
geotecnia
Guest
Cary this is very nice... great job!
I like it very much!
I like it very much!
I'm sorry, you're confused... that wasn't my work. But on behalf of the real creator of it... thanks?
I was thinking along the same lines. This ship was designed as a statement of peace. It is an explorer and built to maximize exploration potential. Turning Starfleet back toward a Probert Era curved ethic (because I miss that. 1701-D is art to me).
But with a mission pod structure, the ship can easily swap to a more tactical stance and the saucer is a more formidable tactical threat ala MAVM.
Actually, I agree with that sentiment. This isn't the Enterprise, and was never meant to be. My Enterprise concept was meant to be an Andorian influenced Federation ship:
For reasons I've done to death elsewhere, it never occurred to me to take a split neck approach seriously. Adam did and that is worthy of Mad props, deep respect and other words that just don't capture it.
What I'm working on now is meant to be a another ship in "Mr. Ihle's trek world" as it were. It is a slightly different direction on the concept but it's not meant as replacement for the concept.
I'm a big fan of the annular warp drive, and like the ring to go all the way around, but that's just me. If I imagine I had thought of this concept in the early days of the contest I'd have ended up with the same "half" ring, I think, because the Enterprise doesn't do roll bars (IMO).
Not building an Enterprise has been kinda freeing, and I think it's just fun to start playing with the idea in other contexts.
BTW, which one was yours? I think I've seen it but I might be imagining things. I've only been following this thread since the Warp Ring was suggested.
[EDIT]Never mind that question. I found it. I like that design. I think it is a good "post J" idea and I think it would make an excellent intergalactic explorer. Have you thought about adapting DFScott's Nacelle and Pylon's idea to it. I thin the were made for each other.
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Hmmm, this design is actually very nice. In the side elevation, I would raise the warp engines just enough to clear the engineering hull while raising the saucer the same amount.
I'd be interested to see a 3/4 rear view as well.
Meanwhile, I keep playing with a couple of versions of the 'ringed'-saucer... lots o' fun.
I'd be interested to see a 3/4 rear view as well.
Meanwhile, I keep playing with a couple of versions of the 'ringed'-saucer... lots o' fun.
Oh well.
Nothing but the best for the Enterprise I say. Considering that the Enterprise is usually amongst the most advanced vessels in the fleet, I think it is only fitting for the Enterprise to have a sophisticated exterior as well.Yeah, I was also thinking that weapons could be added to the roll bar if Ihlecreations desired to do so, but forgot to go there. Besides, I'm kinda afraid of what happens if the weapons are hit hard. They might overload or catch on fire if hit properly, which if that spreads to the center where the warp/slip plasma flows, that would ignite, and BOOM!!! The whole ring explodes. I fear it might get as bad as when the Bozeman collided with the Enterprise's starboard nacelle, and we all know how badly that ended. Albeit that I would expect the ring to have armor, but even that might only do so much. Besides, I think that weapons usually attract weapons fire, and that is the last thing you would want the warp/slip ring to do!
*Maverisms: I thought I recognized the style of your ship. You're the one who did the ship that resembles Atolm's Soulwolf class! I have to say, I loved how you managed to retain the neck, while also giving your entry a sleek stance. I definitely look forward to any other work you do.
*Cary L. Brown and Maverisms:
I know what you mean, and yes, I agree that the roll bar is a radical departure from what has come before. But at the same time, I believe that an open mind is appropriate. Besides, the ring itself is a radical departure in itself. And if mounting the ring by it's center improves the ship's look, then I don't think it should be dismissed just yet.
Well, there's a certain "look" that says "Enterprise" to me. That's really the geometric relationships from the original-series ship, nearly perfectly replicated with the TMP ship. These are not just "random" but are actually able to be defined with equations and relationships which are quite distinct.
Oh well.
Yeah, I was also thinking that weapons could be added to the roll bar if Ihlecreations desired to do so, but forgot to go there. Besides, I'm kinda afraid of what happens if the weapons are hit hard. They might overload or catch on fire if hit properly, which if that spreads to the center where the warp/slip plasma flows, that would ignite, and BOOM!!! The whole ring explodes. I fear it might get as bad as when the Bozeman collided with the Enterprise's starboard nacelle, and we all know how badly that ended. Albeit that I would expect the ring to have armor, but even that might only do so much. Besides, I think that weapons usually attract weapons fire, and that is the last thing you would want the warp/slip ring to do!
*Maverisms: I thought I recognized the style of your ship. You're the one who did the ship that resembles Atolm's Soulwolf class! I have to say, I loved how you managed to retain the neck, while also giving your entry a sleek stance. I definitely look forward to any other work you do.
*Cary L. Brown and Maverisms:
I know what you mean, and yes, I agree that the roll bar is a radical departure from what has come before. But at the same time, I believe that an open mind is appropriate. Besides, the ring itself is a radical departure in itself. And if mounting the ring by it's center improves the ship's look, then I don't think it should be dismissed just yet.
From a "purely mechanical" standpoint, yes, you can do pretty much anything... nacelles in different orientations, nacelles in front, cubic primary hulls, you name it. But the basic, geometrically-balanced "golden ratio" characteristics were best met by the TOS design (and I'm not certain that MJ wasn't aware of the so-called "golden ratios" when he was designing the ship, since he met so many of them!) But these aren't just "Star Trek" aesthetic design rules... they're pretty much universal, and have been accepted since pre-Roman times.
It may seem odd... but it's something that's hard-wired into the human brain, and arguably into basic physics as well. Check it out here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
This, and several other "golden rules of design," which are both aesthetically and mechanically advantageous, should be followed in any design. Start just "clunking" boxes and loops and so forth willy-nilly and you may have all the right features, but they won't "feel right."
There are many other designs, besides the TOS one, which conform to these design rules... but if your design doesn't... it's likely a bad design, at least from an aesthetic standpoint.
Hey...
Here's a fun page for Starship Designers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm
The only area where my work differs is in the indicated deck spacing, as my decks are 10 feet apart instead of 11 (3.4m).
Here's a fun page for Starship Designers: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/design.htm
The only area where my work differs is in the indicated deck spacing, as my decks are 10 feet apart instead of 11 (3.4m).
Well I guess I broke a few of his rules with the Titan...oops...LOL. Thanks for the link.
Just out of curiosity, which rules are you referring to?
I'm serious, because I don't see it.
The Nacelles with the Enginering hull Between them. Mr Roddenberry didn't want the hull between the nacelles.
Yeah, but the rule is "at least 50% clearance" between, and I remember actually checking your design for that... it met the rule perfectly well.
My own take on that rule is that the NACELLES don't have to be in line-of-sight of the other nacelle... but the WARP FIELD DEVICES inside the nacelle have to be in line-of-sight with the matching warp field devices in the opposing nacelle.
So... the Defiant can work... if you treat the coils as being only in the "underhanging" elements on the bottom, for instance. The stuff above that can be non-field-generating components.
Thanks! That made my day. If I don't seem to be overly gushy, know that my inner fanboy is throwing a wild party in my soul and the clean up costs will be epic.
I finished the gross work on the secondary hull last night. I'll be pumping out a few renders tonight. I'm definitely going to look at raising the saucer and nacelles. I'd started with Saucer sitting much higher, but the nacelles were exactly where they are from the start.
Riker's Beard! I'd never seen the Soulwolf before. It's kind of uncanny. Had I split the neck on my entry it would have looked almost Exacty. Like. That.
Suddenly I'm glad I didn't. Not that it looks bad. It doesn't. I like what he did there. I'm just glad I didn't reinvent that particular wheel.
But thanks! I wish I could claim it was pure talent, but what I did was figure out the spacing I wanted between the primary and secondary hulls, and the general geometry of the ship, and then built a neck to connect them. The nice thing about being a 3D artist is you get all of the benefits of sculpting a prototype with easy access to "undo."
As for the weapons fire, I try not to think too hard about what the ship does and why when I'm designing. I used to build function --> form, but I've found the results more pleasing if I start with form and technobable the function in later.
I do see what you mean about letting the idea be and seeing if it can fill the space, as it were, but I'm too close to my work to make that step back. If Mr. Ihle wants to play with the roll bar, I'm not going to object. My inner "enterprise" critic said the Enterprise doesn't do split necks. Adam not only proved me wrong, he made me a believer.
Improved is in the eye of the beholder, isn't it? I'm just hoping it's in the anti-magic eye and not the disintegrate or flesh to stone ones.
I try NOT to think of the Golden section while I'm working on stuff. I'm not against it, I just prefer to start from a place of maximum creativity, and then retrofit into the best practices. I jumped into the ring (Ha ha ha) early for me. Really I'm still soft and tender on the inside and taking criticism gracefully is something I fear I might fail at.
In any event, I did a minor golden section analysis of the ship and I've got a few good ratios in without trying. I don't think that's magic or skill. As you point out, a preference for it seems hardwired into humans, so logically some of the ratios I find pleasing should conform to it.
The question becomes "do I want to force other aspects into the ratio?" Right now I've put that Jury in recess. I do owe another guy a ship and if I start fooling with that, I'll never get to his.
I have these memorized
I try not to break the rules as much as my aesthetic allows. Both of my recent ships have bent Rule 3 in that the Bussard collectors are fully visible from the front but there's a tiny bit of nacelle behind the saucer. I can get pretty fanatic about some things, so I start with a cage that shows me where all of the decks are on each ship. The ring ship has over 50 decks due to the mission pod.
I do tend to put the nacelle's low, but I keep the 50% rule in mind.
Here are some additional views. Since these are all fairly large, I'll just put the URLs in.
These are based off of a slightly less polished the model than the current, but I don't have that version with me. The differences are details, like shuttle bays and such. So the gross geometry is no different.
I added some aft 3/4 views at the end. Most of these I'd already done just for giggles.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-tRcx9thcves/TfD9wvoFHpI/AAAAAAAAANo/sfYSE9MFnyE/s1152/Render1.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-yT35qAbgEjM/TfD9xP1uuxI/AAAAAAAAANs/RhxOVOJg-5E/s1152/Render2.png
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ArNuVuZJ5yA/TfD9xj5JN_I/AAAAAAAAANw/qt-JwLretWE/s1152/Render3.png
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QEY_sYxWM2c/TfD9vpNCshI/AAAAAAAAANY/RpCdSytBGmU/s1152/Render4.png
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-04clIc57u0c/TfD9vrNuWCI/AAAAAAAAANc/DDSOkqGMs5g/s1152/Render5.png
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7uGWLU2UByc/TfD9vCgF6sI/AAAAAAAAANU/p8Pnapm4M-U/s1152/Render6.png
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bBpK-qp_F8E/TfD9wACxhGI/AAAAAAAAANk/IyEILwyhoQA/s1152/Render7.png
the split neck reminds me of Eaves' 2009 Enterprise
of course it turned out to be an April Fools joke
of course it turned out to be an April Fools joke
Yeeaaah... I'm not totally sure yet. I personally think that Maverism's rendering seems to indicate that with enough work and refinement, the ring could work aesthetically. It might be a matter of taste.
Well, there's a certain "look" that says "Enterprise" to me. That's really the geometric relationships from the original-series ship, nearly perfectly replicated with the TMP ship. These are not just "random" but are actually able to be defined with equations and relationships which are quite distinct.
Oh well.
Yeah, I was also thinking that weapons could be added to the roll bar if Ihlecreations desired to do so, but forgot to go there. Besides, I'm kinda afraid of what happens if the weapons are hit hard. They might overload or catch on fire if hit properly, which if that spreads to the center where the warp/slip plasma flows, that would ignite, and BOOM!!! The whole ring explodes. I fear it might get as bad as when the Bozeman collided with the Enterprise's starboard nacelle, and we all know how badly that ended. Albeit that I would expect the ring to have armor, but even that might only do so much. Besides, I think that weapons usually attract weapons fire, and that is the last thing you would want the warp/slip ring to do!
*Maverisms: I thought I recognized the style of your ship. You're the one who did the ship that resembles Atolm's Soulwolf class! I have to say, I loved how you managed to retain the neck, while also giving your entry a sleek stance. I definitely look forward to any other work you do.
*Cary L. Brown and Maverisms:
I know what you mean, and yes, I agree that the roll bar is a radical departure from what has come before. But at the same time, I believe that an open mind is appropriate. Besides, the ring itself is a radical departure in itself. And if mounting the ring by it's center improves the ship's look, then I don't think it should be dismissed just yet.
From a "purely mechanical" standpoint, yes, you can do pretty much anything... nacelles in different orientations, nacelles in front, cubic primary hulls, you name it. But the basic, geometrically-balanced "golden ratio" characteristics were best met by the TOS design (and I'm not certain that MJ wasn't aware of the so-called "golden ratios" when he was designing the ship, since he met so many of them!) But these aren't just "Star Trek" aesthetic design rules... they're pretty much universal, and have been accepted since pre-Roman times.
It may seem odd... but it's something that's hard-wired into the human brain, and arguably into basic physics as well. Check it out here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio
This, and several other "golden rules of design," which are both aesthetically and mechanically advantageous, should be followed in any design. Start just "clunking" boxes and loops and so forth willy-nilly and you may have all the right features, but they won't "feel right."
There are many other designs, besides the TOS one, which conform to these design rules... but if your design doesn't... it's likely a bad design, at least from an aesthetic standpoint.
I can completely understand a desire not too stray from the original design formula established with the Constitution class. At the same time, I want to approach this with an open mind, I'm honestly not really thrilled with how the saucer looks while separated, with the ring hanging down. To me, it looks unbalanced. In my head, I think that by mounting it in the middle like a Vulcan vessel, the saucer will look much better on it's own.
Personally, I would have taken to an approach similar to the Sovereign's saucer-on-top-of-engineering-section, or would have used a half ring instead, and mounted that directly on top of the engineering section, bypassing the neck/necks entirely (hmm, come to think of it, that might be something I should try for myself some day). Because that is not within the design perimeters, I think it is safe to say that it might be necessary to take some unconventional approaches to make the ship look great both together and separated.
The Cetea class might not be what I initially envisioned the Enterprise-F would be, but it is what it is, so I think the best action now is to help in her refinement, which is a challenge, since it is so different from what I normally would think of, but I relish the challenge of finding ways to refine her.
I think that it is going to be a matter which design looks better overall, separated and whole, if we come up with a better solution, or whether or not Ihlecreations thinks my idea is worth continuing to refine.
