Deck Plans V: The Not-So-Final Go Around

[Captain Robert April]

Another aspect to keep in mind with these plans is that they're made with the intent of, at some point, having them published by Pocket Books, so it has to take the other shows into account, at least peripherally. So far, the only reference to "Enterprise" is a quote of Archer in the introduction of the Technical Primer, which I also need to work on.

So, as tempting as it may be, I really can't afford to be too much of a TOS snob. I have to keep in mind what comes after this ship, and as much as my digestion can tolerate, what came before.

 

[Vagabond]

Hope the Pocket Books thing works out! :thumbsup:

No worries, like I said I'm all for it ("more accurate").
It's not a make/break point for me on the issues I mentioned, those were just points that bothered *me* personally. I liked quite a few of your ideas though if that's any consolation.

 

[doctorwho 03]

Getting these published by Pocket Books sounds like an admirable goal, especially with a new movie on the horizon. Good luck with that. But until then, let's see if we can get out of the primary hull before this thread has it's (hopefully avoidable) warp core breach.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Once I get those turboshafts plotted out, that'll be a big ol' hurdle out of the way...

 

[Captain Robert April]

Rather than further screw up the shuttlecraft thread, I'll post Bjo's latest reply here...

Ohmighod! Don't these people have anything more to do than worry where a stupid woodshop was located? And why do they think AMT build AND paid for the original? Outside companies just don't do that. But then, there is always someone to speak authoritatively. When that happens, I just say, "gee, you may be right" and walk away from what suddenly becomes a deadly dull conversation. I can't think of anyone who can refute this because Bob is too ill to bother and Matt Jeffries is dead. Maybe Mike Okuda knows. Ask him.

I'm always getting email from irate fan who tries to call me on something when *I* was there. It doesn't matter that I was there. It couldn't have happened because they've made up their mind that it couldn't have happened. They bore me to tears.

Case in point: Aussie fan who was livid that I said "Journey to Babel" had been censored for violence in its very first run. Kept hounding me to recant on that one because there had N*E*V*E*R been any censorship in Australia. And you'd better believe that one! Never mind that Norman Lindsay, a native Aussie artist was banned all over the place. Never mind that Star Trek wasn't the only TV show censored in the 60s. History be damned; it never happened and I was a dreadful, terrible, horrible person for even suggesting it! I deleted subsequent messages from him.

Another case in point: Fan who'd read "On the Good Ship Enterprise" was not about to believe that Gene Roddenberry had asked silly li'l ole me to take an NBC censor (oh, par'me, Quality Control) to lunch so the Trek crew could film "Mirror, Mirror" their way. No way would a producer ask a mere fan to do this! How stupid of me to have even made the claim! GR would most certainly have asked one of his fellow Producers, or at the very least, an Assistant Director to do this. Which only shows that fan knows nothing of Hollywood hierarchy, much less about network hierarchy. But to him I was obviously one of those braggarts who used Star Trek and Big Names to get attention and to make claims that had no basis in fact. Of course, since the fan was right and I was wrong, there was nothing more to be said on the subject. I certainly had nothing more to say, and deleted subsequent messages from him.

A personal observation, which I shared with Bjo, is that while I do not doubt that AMT did design and at least played a major part in the construction of the shuttlecraft, from AMT's perspective, it makes a lot more sense to put up their guys from Phoenix in a hotel in LA for a few weeks, hire local studio guys for the actual labor, and build it on the lot than build it in Phoenix and then have to deal with the expense, and risk, of trucking the thing to LA.

I think this fits all the available evidence fairly well, including Bjo's recollections and the involvement of AMT's Phoenix shop (they supplied the design and the expertise, just temporarily transplanted to the Desilu lot for a few weeks).

 

[MGagen]

That is very sad, CRA. You are doing a grave disservice to a fine lady by posting that here. I can only imagine how you characterised the issue for her to elicit such a response...

I'm breaking my own rule against posting in this thread to set this straight.

I've recently been in contact with Gene Winfield and he is certainly in a position to settle the matter since he's the man who actually built the thing.

He told me emphatically that the Shuttlecraft (both interior and exterior) were constructed under his supervision at AMT's custom shop in Phoenix, Arizona, and then trucked to Desilu. Other first hand witnesses from the production crew, including Matt Jefferies, have vouched for the financial arrangement -- that AMT bore the cost of construction to be deducted from royalties due on model kits.

I can't understand why you wish to indulge in fruitless and unfounded speculations about a subject where actual facts from first hand sources are being documented. It seems to me that this is more typical of the type of fan Bjo is complaining about.

Mr. Winfield also provided several other interesting details about the Shuttlecraft that I will post this weekend on Hobbytalk.

Cheers,
M.

 

[Captain Robert April]

You could've said all that without the attitude.

 

[doctorwho 03]

I have a bad feeling were in for another meltdown.

 

[blakbyrd]

*Hides behind a turned over car, and awaits the fallout*

 

[Captain Robert April]

No, I'm willing to leave it where it lays.

I'd appreciate some more specifics, like dates, but overall, I'm satisfied that the general question has been answered (for the record, it was someone on the crew, possibly John Dwyer, who told Bjo that the shuttle was built on the lot, so take that for what it's worth).

What's a bit frustrating is the lengths these debates have to go before some hard data gets offered up, after a whole lot of unnecessary posturing, name calling, and just general unpleasantness. How freakin' hard was it to get ahold of Gene Winfield, and why did it have to wind up being a game of dueling sources? Why couldn't that have been the first call? Instead, we were left playing shadow puppets with undated concept sketches and trying to cook up a timeline that explained it all, when one phone call, email, carrier pidgeon, whatever, could've cleared up the whole bloody thing before it even became testy, let alone threaten to break out in yet another flame war.

Jeez......

 

[Forbin]

Really.
I'd assume that CRA, like me, upon hearing the actual facts simply stated, would just say "Oh, okay, good to finally clear that up!" and move on.

 

[Ptrope]

Well, it's a good thing this shuttlecraft information didn't derail the shuttlecraft thread.

Now that it's done, and most definitely off-topic, let's get back to the deck plans, folks, and consider this discussion ended.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Forbin said:
Really.
I'd assume that CRA, like me, upon hearing the actual facts simply stated, would just say "Oh, okay, good to finally clear that up!" and move on.

Unfortunately, simple statements of facts are about as hard to come by around here as hen's teeth. At least without having to go through a round of trench warfare first.

As for the turbolifts, I'm beginning to think a symetrical arrangement isn't going to work, not if we're going to keep the concept of any turbolift anywhere in the ship having the capability of reaching any other turbolift stop on the ship.

The pull of a symetrical arrangement is strong, but it must be resisted. After all, the bridge having the turbolift off to one side isn't exactly symetrical, so we've at least got that precedent.

 

[Vagabond]

IIRC, FJS designed his plans with the idea that a turbolift would be accessible to anyone within about a minute walk (some lazy people there).

That's too many friggin' turbolifts.
Battlestations doesn't really count as an excuse (was given also IIRC) since the stations are already supposed to be manned (there ARE 430 people on board! What are they doing with themselves when it isn't time to fight?).

I'm trying to imagine all these turbolifts functioning at once due to the battlestations concept...

 

[Forbin]

Doing turboshaft layouts on my design, got me thinking about where the cars on station go when another car comes along. I'm thinking there to be "sidings" to shunt cars to just to get them out of the way of each other!

 

[Captain Robert April]

I'm thinking of an arrangement that looks something like a rounded trident, with the turboshafts extending no further forward than around the halfway point of the saucer. That should provide plenty of access without completely blocking off parts of the ship in the event the turbolifts should go out.

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Maybe you could consider leaving the corridor that is closest to the edge of the saucer go all around so they can use it as a running track (Grin)

 

[Forbin]

Only doing one deck on mine, 'cause I'm a lazy bastard, but I've scaled the turboshafts way back based on this discussion.

http://www.inpayne.com/temp/coeur_de_lion_cutaway_head.jpg

I wouldn't recommend a jogger cut thru the hangar deck during operations, but one could loop around the two outer corridors .

 

[Vance]

And the engineers knew the ship was flawed when the shuttles kept crashing into the isolation wards!

 

[Forbin]

They'd have to get thru the super-armored iso-quantum turboshaft first!

Granted I had the same thought, but I don't imagine there's much chance of a shuttle landing happening without tractor-beam control, and they can't possibley land very fast since they have an engine pylon to dodge around on the way in:
http://www.inpayne.com/temp/coeur_de_lion_3-view.jpg
(Okay, it ain't a perfect design, but it IS just a kitbash! )