Deanna Troi: What changes would you make

[Praetor]

I actually find that very interesting, chardman. I would have rather enjoyed seeing Troi and Picard at odds for those reasons, but I bet there would be a lot more Troi haters than Troi 'meh'ers.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Would have kept her as originally envisioned: At first a "Ship's Counselor " was a "Ship's Councilor". Not a psychologist, but a civilian rep of The Federation itself... a protocol officer of sorts. Like a Soviet era Political Officer, though significantly less insidious.

Not in uniform as she isn't in Starfleet, and can never be in Starfleet, as that might bias her decisions. Her sole allegiance is to the Federation.

The reason she's on the bridge, in a spot that implies that she's an equal to the first officer, is because she must observe all aspects of ship's operations, to make sure they fall within federation protocols. She's also there to represent the Federation government in all interactions with aliens, particularly in first contact situations.

Because ships of exploration regularly encounters unexpected situations, there are times when existing protocols aren't exactly adequate to the task at hand. In these situations, the job of Ship's Councilor is to reinterpret existing protocols to accommodate the new situation, or to help craft new protocols that are consistent with Federation's general philosophy, and to advise the ship's Captain accordingly.

I think that the reason the above concept never made it as far as the finished Writer's Bible was that it inherently tempted writers to use the Captain and the Councilor against one another in an adversarial way; to create an "Us vs Them" dynamic between Starfleet and The Federation. And that, unfortunately, just didn't jive with Roddenberry's bullshit Utopian view of "our main characters are too enlightened to have conflicts with one another".

Once they pared away all aspects of the character that could have led to such conflict, they were left with a character that served no real purpose, and most assuredly didn't warrant a command seat. So the main thing I'd do to change the way Troi was presented, would have been to scrap the prohibition on interpersonal conflict, so that such conflicts could occur. So that there could be an "Us and Them" diachotomy between the Starfleet and The Federation, so that Troi and Piccard could, from time to time, get up in one another's grill.

Very interesting Councilor,

Would she have technical knowledge of how the ship works?

 

[Red Ranger]

Would have kept her as originally envisioned: At first a "Ship's Counselor " was a "Ship's Councilor". Not a psychologist, but a civilian rep of The Federation itself... a protocol officer of sorts. Like a Soviet era Political Officer, though significantly less insidious.

Not in uniform as she isn't in Starfleet, and can never be in Starfleet, as that might bias her decisions. Her sole allegiance is to the Federation.

The reason she's on the bridge, in a spot that implies that she's an equal to the first officer, is because she must observe all aspects of ship's operations, to make sure they fall within federation protocols. She's also there to represent the Federation government in all interactions with aliens, particularly in first contact situations.

Because ships of exploration regularly encounters unexpected situations, there are times when existing protocols aren't exactly adequate to the task at hand. In these situations, the job of Ship's Councilor is to reinterpret existing protocols to accommodate the new situation, or to help craft new protocols that are consistent with Federation's general philosophy, and to advise the ship's Captain accordingly.

I think that the reason the above concept never made it as far as the finished Writer's Bible was that it inherently tempted writers to use the Captain and the Councilor against one another in an adversarial way; to create an "Us vs Them" dynamic between Starfleet and The Federation. And that, unfortunately, just didn't jive with Roddenberry's bullshit Utopian view of "our main characters are too enlightened to have conflicts with one another".

Once they pared away all aspects of the character that could have led to such conflict, they were left with a character that served no real purpose, and most assuredly didn't warrant a command seat. So the main thing I'd do to change the way Troi was presented, would have been to scrap the prohibition on interpersonal conflict, so that such conflicts could occur. So that there could be an "Us and Them" diachotomy between the Starfleet and The Federation, so that Troi and Piccard could, from time to time, get up in one another's grill.

Chardman:

Wow, that sounds really interesting. There's a novel I read by Arthur C. Clarke, The Songs of Distant Earth, that has a character a lot like that. It would've also meant for some hot conflict between Riker and Troi, with the added dynamic of their failed relationship as the subtext behind their arguments.

I think that Denise Crosby would've been better suited for that version of Counselor Troi, IMHO. As many of you may know, TPTB had considered casting Denise Crosby as Troi and Marina Sirtis as the security chief, then named "Macha" Hernandez, their version of Vasquez from Aliens.

Certainly, as prickly as Picard was in the first season, he would've been taking umbrage on a regular basis!

I also thought that was a kind of role that would be perfect for the wife of the captain, the civilian liaison who is the only person who can butt heads with the captain and get away with it -- other than the CMO, of course. What sparks would fly then!

Red Ranger

 

[chardman]

When I first heard about TNG, well before it came out, and heard about this character, it reminded me of the character from "Songs of Distant Earth" as well.

That's what I was expecting the character to be. As such, I was really kinda bummed when the pilot movie aired, and Troi was little more than a watered down retread of Ilia from TMP, though with even less of a clear purpose for being there.

I kept hoping that the Protocol Councilor role would eventually establish itself, but that never really happened. That said: the New Age Therapist that Troi eventually became was kind of an interesting idea, and one which I think contributed to the series overall, but they needed to come up with a logical in-universe reason for her to be stationed on the bridge, rather than next to Crusher's office in Sickbay.

 

[NathanielM]

ACCORDING TO TREK LORE:

and most fans know this, the counciller positions was a new position on Starships. It reduced combat fatigue outside on lopng voyages and allowed better crew "Adjustment"

The only thing I would change is Deanna thought casting with Riker more. (Although she appeared at farpoint many years after and he long forgot how to do it.) He could have recovered himself and made up for lost years.

After the episode where Lt Riker appeared in their time line, I would have presumed they would have become a tad bit closer.

Also I would make an episode from Imadi, - Peter David

That was an excellent episode (two parter) one of the most powerful romances and stories I would ever read. Alot of emotion in it.

Ok here goes,

The writers really screwed up Deanna Troi IIRC from TNG Companion
She was supposed to be more intelligent than most of the crew.
Intelligence Wise: Deanna + Data = Spock
As well the Deanna character was also supposed to be used to explore what it means to be human as well as Data. Deanna was supposed to be a Telepath but during the writing of Encounter At Farpoint she was downgraded to Empath she was supposed to be 1/4 human changed to 1/2.
Turned into Just Eye Candy.

One thing I'm GLAD they did change Betazoid Females were supposed to have 4 of them where would the other 2

So what would you have done with Deanna Troi?

 

[LaBarre]

Would have kept her as originally envisioned: At first a "Ship's Counselor " was a "Ship's Councilor". Not a psychologist, but a civilian rep of The Federation itself... a protocol officer of sorts. Like a Soviet era Political Officer, though significantly less insidious.

Not in uniform as she isn't in Starfleet, and can never be in Starfleet, as that might bias her decisions. Her sole allegiance is to the Federation.

The reason she's on the bridge, in a spot that implies that she's an equal to the first officer, is because she must observe all aspects of ship's operations, to make sure they fall within federation protocols. She's also there to represent the Federation government in all interactions with aliens, particularly in first contact situations..

I'm so glad they didn't end up with this because it's too close to the bitter reality of Soviet communist party Political Officers who were assigned to USSR naval ships and armies. Their sole purpose was to spy on the crews and report back to Moscow on any deviations from party propaganda - and to authorise executions, as required (a role perfected in Stalin's time).

That would have been a very bad look for the 24th century, IMO.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Got two more ideas I'm working on

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Got two more ideas I'm working on

Make that three 1 Large and 2 Small ones working out on word at the moment

 

[C.E. Evans]

Crazy enough, I probably would have made Troi half-Human/half-Vulcan myself--but unlike Spock, she would have fully embraced her Human half and would actually have a kind of salty sense of humor. Even so, she would still express some surprisingly brutal Vulcan logic to Picard at key times though. Her position would not have been chief counselor (as that duty really ended up going to Guinan anyway), but rather "protocol officer". Not so much a psychologist as an advisor from Starfleet Headquarters itself...

And yes, I would have kept her in the "cheerleader" uniform from Encounter At Farpoint, but as protocol officer, it would have been command red and she would have worn her hair down like she did in the movies...

 

[CorporalClegg]

"protocol officer". Not so much a psychologist as an advisor from Starfleet Headquarters itself...

Or even just a "political officer" so the show could further embrace its Communism roots.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Crazy enough, I probably would have made Troi half-Human/half-Vulcan myself--but unlike Spock, she would have fully embraced her Human half and would actually have a kind of salty sense of humor. Even so, she would still express some surprisingly brutal Vulcan logic to Picard at key times though. Her position would not have been chief counselor (as that duty really ended up going to Guinan anyway), but rather "protocol officer". Not so much a psychologist as an advisor from Starfleet Headquarters itself...

And yes, I would have kept her in the "cheerleader" uniform from Encounter At Farpoint, but as protocol officer, it would have been command red and she would have worn her hair down like she did in the movies...

I would have gone Betazoid/Vulcan,
Protocol Officer "cheerleader" in RED Black Hose, boots half as high TOS.
Also kept her hair long to hide her ears (Due to that people see her ears before those Black eyes and an Emotional Vulcan) She got FED up with people going all weird around a Vulcan that DOES NOT RE-PRESS her emotions, at some point shown her with her up or in a braid so the viewers can see her Vulcan ears.

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

lipstick bi?

THE TPTB would not have the guts for that

 

[TS-1838-SWATH]

Although I am heavily biased about Marina Sirtis, I think I'm being objective in saying that she was quite on par with Frakes, Dorn, Crosby, Burton, and McFadden. She was a good match. Like the Wesley character, I don't think it's quite fair (if understandable) to want to jettison the actor due to sub-par writing.

Because the Troi character, other than S1 Wesley, had the worst overall writing. No offense to the writers, I suspect they had tight constraints on Troi's powers and character development. I agree with those who feel the character should have had greater psychic ability.
One story element I think was missed with Troi was the conflict her powers could have caused among the crew, even her fellow bridge officers. Which brings me to another thing. This woman was a Lt. Commander if I remember right, from S1. Or was it Lt? We should have seen her in a standard uniform regularly, as well as the bunny suits. And we should have seen her operate a computer more often, use a tricorder, etc. "Ship's Counsellor" may have been her title, but she graduated from the same Academy, and had all of the basic skills any Starfleet officer has.
Sometimes, the writing would show other aspects of her job, especially its huge role in regard to the civilian population and children on the Ent-D. I think they should have portrayed her as being way, way more busy. Superindentent of schools, chief organizer of a lot of the civilian activities, chief conduit between the Command staff of the Ent-D and the civilians. On top of that, she's head of psychology for the Starfleet crew, does crew reviews with Comm. Riker (something we see too much), and works what was probably a part-time shift on the Bridge, as well as additional Bridge Duty whenever necessary.
In other words, a whole lot more than saying "I sense taint, Captain."

IIRC even some of the writing staff were at a loss as to how to write for the Deanna Troi Character there was talk of writing her out of T.N.G. in year 1.

 

[Praetor]

I hate to say it, but it would have been interesting to see the overall development that would have occurred had Troi died instead of Yar, and they'd not gotten another bridge counselor. I can easily see Worf moving to helm to replace Geordi after Geordi moved to engineering.

 

[WillsBabe]

I hate to say it, but it would have been interesting to see the overall development that would have occurred had Troi died instead of Yar, and they'd not gotten another bridge counselor. I can easily see Worf moving to helm to replace Geordi after Geordi moved to engineering.

I've heard many people say, and I guess I think so myself, that Worf's character developed because Tasha wasn't there anymore. He took over the physical stuff, the security role, and the writers and viewers took to the idea of a Klingon on the bridge in a defensive role. Maybe Worf's character would have suffered if Tasha had stayed. I can't see how Deanna leaving would have altered TNG's great themes and episodes the way that Tasha staying might have, she just didn't seem to have that kind of impact on the stories or the other characters. If Tasha had lived we might not have got Yesterday's Enterprise (although I prefer to think that we would have!) And we wouldn't have had all the Sela stuff. Although we might have had all the Sela stuff with a different face - Troi's rather than Yar's. Finally, it's ages since I've mentioned my pencant for Riker/Yar, so I suppose it's time it got an airing again. I'm basing all this on her line "Will Riker, you're the best," and some other bits and pieces from the first season that my aged brian can't recall right at this moment! Maybe Riker and Tasha hooked up at some point. I think they'd have suited each other. Or maybe he would have got together with Ro in Connundrum because there was no Troi to walk in on him and Ro at that moment.

I think Deanna dying would have had an impact on the details of TNG while Tasha dying seemed to have an impact on the overall story/theme progression. But of course that's with the benefit of hindsight!

 

[Praetor]

I think Worf would have developed as a different character and perhaps a less 'stereotypical' Klingon. And Riker/Yar is interesting and might have worked quite well.

However, after reading what you just wrote and letting it digest for a minute, WillsBabe, I think I'm glad we got what we got.

So back to improving Deanna.

 

[WillsBabe]

I think Worf would have developed as a different character and perhaps a less 'stereotypical' Klingon.

That's a good point. Might we have missed out on what started out as interesting but ended up as interminable Honourable!Worf episodes?

And Riker/Yar is interesting and might have worked quite well.

I think it might have worked in earlier seasons when he was still more a man of action.

 

[Praetor]

I think Worf would have developed as a different character and perhaps a less 'stereotypical' Klingon.

That's a good point. Might we have missed out on what started out as interesting but ended up as interminable Honourable!Worf episodes?

We might have if he moved to helm... alternatively we may have gotten more of him struggling with his cultural 'identity' if he was feeling less like a traditional Klingon. Maybe Wesley would have shipped out to the Academy sooner too?.

And Riker/Yar is interesting and might have worked quite well.

I think it might have worked in earlier seasons when he was still more a man of action.

Yeah. Maybe they'd have spurred each other on though? They were both rather feisty.

 

[WillsBabe]

we may have gotten more of him struggling with his cultural 'identity' if he was feeling less like a traditional Klingon.

I think that at the time it was interesting to see all the stuff about Worf that we did, but I also think that a struggle with his cultural identity would have been interesting, too. Perhaps more so.

Maybe they'd have spurred each other on though? They were both rather feisty.

Fiesty. I like that!

I remember the conversation Riker had with Deanna in BOBWI. She asked him what he wanted when he wondered what he was still doing on the Enterprise. If Deanna was dead at that point, and he was having that conversation with Yar maybe she'd have just kicked his ass off the ship!

 

[Praetor]

we may have gotten more of him struggling with his cultural 'identity' if he was feeling less like a traditional Klingon.

I think that at the time it was interesting to see all the stuff about Worf that we did, but I also think that a struggle with his cultural identity would have been interesting, too. Perhaps more so.

It might have nicely set up a 'defanged' Worf who had to regain his Klingon-ness on DS9...

Maybe they'd have spurred each other on though? They were both rather feisty.

Feisty. I like that!

I remember the conversation Riker had with Deanna in BOBWI. She asked him what he wanted when he wondered what he was still doing on the Enterprise. If Deanna was dead at that point, and he was having that conversation with Yar maybe she'd have just kicked his ass off the ship!

I do indeed imagine she might have told him to leave and he wouldn't have listened... and then that whole Locutus business happened. Then maybe they'd have broken up, and he'd still be there. And uncomfortable.

Protocol Officer Troi might have reacted differently too.