Spoilers DC's Legends of Tomorrow - Season 2

[kirk55555]

Those costumes are a lot closer than a lot of costumes we've gotten over the years, and it's pretty clear at this point that you're just looking for minor nit picks just to have some reason to not like them. Clearly you just have a massive grudge against the Arrowverse shows and nothing they do will please you at this point.

Wow. If you know my mind so well, can you tell me what number I'm thinking of?

Believe me, I'm not looking for things to complain about. I don't have to "look" for reasons to hate about Berlanti's garbage. I don't like them because they are shit shows with people in charge who care less about the comics then Zach Snyder, the man who made Batman murder people with guns. They're also incompetent and couldn't write good stories or characters to save their lives. The only "grudge" I have is that three of the four shows used to be good to great (with Supergirl being irredeemable from its very premise), and now two have been completely destroyed by idiots and the other is suffering pretty badly from berlanti and friends obsession with cheap soap opera drama. So, I'm pretty pissed about that. Like I said, Smallville got the JSA pretty much as perfectly as they could in the confines of their show/universe, and Smallville was not nearly as good as The Flash Season 1/2 or Arrow Season 1/2. But for some reason the writing has turned to trash.

I desperately want to enjoy all of the CW shows (even Supergirl, and its just a television adaptation of a terrible Anne Hathaway movie with superheroes added). I loved two seasons of Arrow, and two seasons of The Flash (and season 3 of Flash isn't irredeemable, its just started out badly). I also enjoyed Legends of Tomorrow Season 1 despite its problems. I want the shows to be as good as they could be, and Arrow to go back to being as good as it was. It won't happen if they keep going with the soap opera garbage, and things like Legends taking a dump on DC comics in general. If Berlanti and the other people in charge of the shows were fired, the shows could be great. Flash might still pull out of the nosedive the terrible Flashpoint story put it in. I would take any excuse to praise any of these shows, but between The Flash going grimdark, Legends giving the middle finger to the JSA, Felicity still focusing on everyone but Oliver and making him a terrible character and Supergirl being irritaiting and the second worst written show after Felicity, there just isn't much good to say about the CW shows right now. The second that changes, I'll be right there cheering, but I'm not going to pretend the shows haven't gone down in quality, or aren't doing really stupid things that irritate me (or, in the case of the Berlanti Society, offend me as a JSA fan).

 

[sojourner]

I don't have to "look" for reasons to hate

Well, you got that part right.

 

[DEWLine]

They wouldn't include Darvill in the poster if they didn't plan on his return later in the season, right?

 

[Christopher]

They wouldn't include Darvill in the poster if they didn't plan on his return later in the season, right?

That depends. What poster are you referring to? If it was a pre-season poster, they wouldn't want to spoil his absence. If it's a poster more recent than last week, though, then you're probably right.

 

[sojourner]

The professor got in a Back to the Future reference when he went on stage!

 

[Christopher]

Well, this seems to be the week for the Earth-1 shows finally getting their acts together. Last week's LoT was kind of a mess, but this was much stronger. Effective character work, drama, humor, and action, and the interplay between the JSA and the Legends was good, although only a few JSA members really got developed.

Although the outcome of Sara becoming the new team leader was kind of spoiled in advance by the fact that she did the opening narration. Still, it's what I would've expected. It feels pretty natural, given how important and well-liked Sara is as a character. She's come a long way from being a dead character (played by a different actress) in a flashback in the Arrow pilot. Even just starting with Caity Lotz's debut in the role, she's the one who's been around the longest of any of the LoT cast.

I do have a number of questions. Was that a version of Blockbuster that Krieger turned into? Is Krieger an existing DC character? And where do the JSA get their superpowers if they're not metahumans? Well, of course Amaya has the Tantu Totem and Stargirl has her staff thing. In the comics, Hourman got his powers from special "vitamin pills" called Miraclo that lasted for an hour (hence the name). Obsidian, a character I've never heard of as far as I recall, got powers from exposure to some kind of "shadow energy." And Doctor Mid-Nite was injured in an explosion that blinded him but somehow gave him the power to see in total darkness. These versions of the characters don't necessarily have the same origins, though. And it's odd that there were so many powered heroes around during WWII but somehow the existence of superheroes was forgotten for 70 years.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I have not gotten a chance to watch it yet. Just got home from work. in the comics Obsidian is the son of the Golden Age Green Lantern, Alan Scott.

 

[Morpheus 02]

I have not gotten a chance to watch it yet. Just got home from work. in the comics Obsidian is the son of the Golden Age Green Lantern, Alan Scott.

Indeed... with a sister named Jade with GL powers from a "birthmark" in her hand... They were major characters in "Infinity Inc." from the 80's, a more expensive comic with higher grade paper.

I am shocked Christopher had no idea about him.

But I wonder what his origins are, if he's not someone that was an adult in the 80's.

 

[Icemizer]

By 1942 black uniforms had all but been phased out in place of the grey among all but panzer troops. Most horrible tonight however was the wearing of brown shirts under the black uniforms. After the Night of the Long Knives no general would wear one.
Outside of that an excellent episode

 

[Dick Whitman]

I do not know what their plan is here. Obviously film and tv show adaptations are never exactly the same as the source material. Superheros from comics are the hardest because there is so much to draw on.

But being a time travel series in shared universe of other shows, they could have been much closer to the JSA of the comics than this. They kept Commander Steel and Citizen Steel coming from the same family across generations. But Stargirl who is a very modern character changed to being from the 1940s.

Most of all this same show last season had Hawkman and Hawkgirl who could have been alive in the 40s. Why did they not plan ahead?

 

[Christopher]

Oh, there's a bit of a continuity glitch with Vixen. Apparently she already called herself that in 1942, but in the animated Vixen webseries, Cisco was the one who gave Mari McCabe that name because he thought she was hot. So it's a huge coincidence that he chose the same name her grandmother used. I was expecting that the Legends team would give her that name because they knew about her granddaughter and named her retroactively, so to speak. But now we've got a plot hole.

Hmm... Maybe Cisco had read about the JSA and Amaya/Vixen sometime in the past but didn't consciously remember, but it subconsciously influenced his choice of code name for Mari.

But being a time travel series in shared universe of other shows, they could have been much closer to the JSA of the comics than this. They kept Commander Steel and Citizen Steel coming from the same family across generations. But Stargirl who is a very modern character changed to being from the 1940s.

There are other considerations besides fidelity. Presumably they chose Stargirl over Starman because they didn't want the JSA to be just a bunch of men and one token woman. Heck, Vixen wasn't part of the JSA either.

Or maybe it's just because Stargirl is the more prominent character these days. The depictions of the JSA in Justice League Unlimited and Smallville also chose Stargirl over Starman; the only screen adaptation of the JSA to date that's depicted Ted Knight/Starman was Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

Most of all this same show last season had Hawkman and Hawkgirl who could have been alive in the 40s. Why did they not plan ahead?

Hawkman and Hawkgirl have been alive (on and off) for nearly 4000 years. They can't show up in every past era more recent than 1700 BCE. If there's a story that warrants bringing them back, it should be one that centers on them, not one where they'd get lost in a crowd of characters.

Besides, we saw an incarnation of the couple in 1941 last season, and it was pretty clear they were laying low, trying to avoid Savage's attention. So it's no surprise they never got recruited into the JSA.

 

[kirk55555]

I watched episode 1 today, and it was really good. The main cast was great, the story was interesting (if goofy in the way I'd expect from LoT, but done in a better way then the Savage stuff last year) and there were some very cool moments. The weakest part was probably Einstein, who wasn't that interesting of a character. The final scene was also pathetic, for obvious reasons, but I don't hold that against this episode. I was surprised to see Oliver as mayor of Star City, it happened in the comics but I didn't expect to see it here. The New Guy, aka heywood, was a decent addition. I hate to see Rip go, but hopefully he'll be back.

Overall, a strong start to the season. So strong that I think I'll suffer through the next episode so I don't miss any developments for the overall story and main cast. This episode and Flash S3 episode 3 have done a good job renewing my belief that at least a few of the CW shows have skilled people who care working on them. Obviously LoT S2 Episode 2 (aka the episode that aired today) is a step back for LoT, but after a great first episode I'm hoping they rebound from the "Berlanti Society" and do more awesome stuff.

 

[Gryffindorian]

Looks like they cherrypicked certain DC characters to be members of the WW2 era JSA. For the most part, it worked well, though Obsidian didn't get that much screen time.

I'm assuming the current version of Eobard Thawne is pre-Flash-era Reverse Flash and not the Flashpoint Thawne, unless he's a time remnant of sorts, because he shouldn't even exist anymore.

 

[Snaploud]

The JSA came across as complete jerks. I understand that the episode was about the legends proving themselves, but the writers gave me zero reason to care about the outcome. I would rather the legends just fought Eobard and ignored the nonsense from history's secret super-jerks.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Commander Steel and Vixen were really the only JSAers we got to know in this episode. I assume Obsidian will figure in later episodes, since Lance Hendrickson will be playing the older(present day?) version. Sorry to see Hourman go, especially since we didn't get to see him use his powers. Or maybe I missed it. Maybe he'll survive somehow or in some form (comics fan might know what I'm hinting at). He does have a history with Thawne or did. Time travel, what can you do? We did get to see Mid-Nite's night vision briefly, but with Obsidian on the team, his blackout bombs seems superfluous. Then again this is a show with Heat Wave and Firestorm in it.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Colossus… um, I mean Citizen Steel will have his small screen debut in the next episode! You can see Nate discovering his powers in the promo below:

Spoiler: 2x03 "Shogun" promo

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[intrinsical]

I feel like they're really, really overdoing it with Sara getting it on with every woman she comes across regardless of the historical period. It really feels gratuitous and exploitative.

I think she is shaping up to be Kirk. Captain of the ship, fighter, lover.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Oh, there's a bit of a continuity glitch with Vixen. Apparently she already called herself that in 1942, but in the animated Vixen webseries, Cisco was the one who gave Mari McCabe that name because he thought she was hot. So it's a huge coincidence that he chose the same name her grandmother used. I was expecting that the Legends team would give her that name because they knew about her granddaughter and named her retroactively, so to speak. But now we've got a plot hole.

Flashpoint. It'll be the next "a wizard did it" or "magnets".

Not a bad episode but perhaps a bit too ambitious with the Krieger CGI, that was hard to watch even knowing the limitations of TV budget.

Have to say that Jefferson looked pretty good in a suit.

 

[Christopher]

I'm assuming the current version of Eobard Thawne is pre-Flash-era Reverse Flash and not the Flashpoint Thawne, unless he's a time remnant of sorts, because he shouldn't even exist anymore.

There is no "Flashpoint Thawne." The Thawne that Barry had imprisoned in Flashpoint was the same one he stopped from killing his mother in the past, and the same one that then restored the (approximate) original timeline and then ran off at the end. That Thawne was no more native to the Flashpoint timeline than Barry was. Presumably that's the original Thawne who came back from the future, the one who did not get stranded in the past and become Harrison Wells and get wiped from history at the end of the first season. And since he was still alive at the end of "Flashpoint," that means he's presumably the same Reverse Flash we're seeing here.

Although, yes, that would make him a time remnant, because Eddie killing himself should've prevented Thawne from ever being born, so presumably being "out of time" as a traveler saved this iteration.

 

[DigificWriter]

It continues to baffle me that some people continue to expect "comic book accuracy" out of things that are not the comic books.

Anyway, I digress. On to my review of this week's episode:
All four of the Arrowverse series have been stellar this season, but Supergirl and Legends have been the most "focused" thus far in terms of laying out their overall narratives, and are the series I would rank at the top right now.

Yes, some of the JSA members didn't get much of a spotlight in this week's episode, but given that they're just secondary characters anyway, that really isn't a problem (or shouldn't be seen as one, anyway), as you want the focus to be on your regular character ensemble as much as possible... hence why Nate Heywood and Amaya got a lot of focus. This episode may have been named after the JSA, but its narrative purpose was to do the same thing that Flash's Legends of Yesterday and Arrow's Legends of Today did last season: lay the pipework for things to come, which in this case is a new 'status quo' for LoT that includes Vixen and Citizen Steel. However, it ends up doing a better job than those episodes did because it didn't have to make any narrative sacrifices in doing so.

With the JSA serving to set up and further the overall advancement of Lot's current narrative, I liked the way that the two teams played off of and contrasted one another, and the way that their presence in the story gave us a chance to explore certain aspects of our regular and already established characters that we might not otherwise gotten a chance to, from Sara showing some of her softer 'motherly' side in her interactions with Nate (which were a direct result of the Legends interacting with the JSA early on) to Stein getting to showcase himself as a singer (Victor Garber belting out Edelweiss to a room full of Nazis was utterly hilarious brilliance) to Ray and Amaya forming a bit of a bond and Ray getting to further his characterization as the "white knight" of the group through his decision to A) volunteer to help the Nazis to keep Amaya alive (and get his hands on the "super serum") and his decision to use the serum to save Nate's life to Rex Tyler's presumptuous behavior forcing the Legends into a "leadership crisis" and Stein into a personal dilemma.

I also really liked the character interactions between Nate and Commander Steel, not only because they gave us some insight into the latter's character, but also because they played directly into the development of the characterization of the former.

"The Justice Society of America" was a really great episode on the whole, and has set up the rest of LoT's season in some intriguing ways, even as we appear to be leaving the eponymous group behind for now aside from Vixen.